Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Mike Cecil]

Well done, Gina: a lot of work in all of that.

Some background: From memory, the AWM's Dingo was based upon a paint layer analysis, so the status of the original paint before it was covered with the next layer could well have been weathered.

The MH tractor was as supplied by the seller in Qld (I arranged for its purchase), so it's his gloss/semi-gloss version of Light Stone. Same with the Limber and the more recently acquired No.12 FGT. I think the 25-pdr in the storage area (there is also one on display in the WW2 gallery) was done in Lustreless Acrylic, which from my limited experience with it, is never a close match to anything! In the least, it was a modern water-based paint, so a different formula to its WW2 counterpart. Conservation were always so concerned with 'off gassing' of enamel paints into storage or display areas that the then-conservation manager almost always opted for Acrylic. So I've little doubt that none of the items coloured Light stone/desert yellow in the collection are a match to each other or to a 'standard' example!

Great work, Gina. We have all learned a lot from your labours.

Mike

[Mrs Vampire]

Many Thanks Mike ...That is high praise indeed coming from you

will post the text on to you when complete.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Well done, Gina: a lot of work in all of that.
Great work, Gina. We have all learned a lot from your labours.

Mike

Hi Gina,

I second that!

Started the repaint of my truck about 6 weeks ago in the Florite KG3 and am happy with the results.

There were no problems overpainting the Wattyl and Croda OD alkyd enamel paints.

After too many paint issues over the years it is nice to have a regular supplier who can make a consistently accurate colours.

I got the wheels, mudguards, fuel tanks, and windscreens repainted before cold and rain halted play this autumn. It went a lot faster than the first time with not having to remove grease, mud, and rust first!

As can be seen in the photo there as a substantial difference in colour to the current ADF Olive Drab which is the colour paint I have been using from the beginning on the truck.

Many thanks again Gina for all your work on this subject and for pointing me in the right direction.

Cheers,

[Mrs Vampire]

Looks very nice indeed Jacques.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Gina and Informed Others,

If KG3 cane out around 1942, does this imply that a vehicle made by Holden for the Australian Army; namely, a Chevrolet truck in 1940 would have been painted: KG2?

Or was it KG1 back in 1940?

What would the components and mix of the 1940 paintwork be?

Yes, I have 100% vested interests in the answer to these questions. Just take a glance at my signature photograph

The colour plate on my vehicle's firewall just says "Khaki". At the moment it is, "pick a green - any green"; plus surface rust!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mrs Vampire]

Hi Lionel Gee

So far as I can tell the KG3 was a prewar colour . The specification for it in the Archive is a 1940 spec ( from memory I don't have it in front of me) It was specified for all tin hats made in Australia throughout the war.

I understand it was from a British specification but I have to send some data to Mike Starmers to confirm that. I have a spectrographic sample of the only known chip , and it is a chip indeed measuring around 3/8" square, that i will have made up and sent of to Britain for comparison.

KG #3 was not used on Vehicles by the Australian Army according to the documentary and photographic evidence that exists until December of 1943. Army orders and paint availability indicate Deep bronze green and British desert yellow (light stone) were used until the Australian "Berger" colour set was adopted.

The standard Khaki was KGJ ( colour J in the colour set.)

To Your vehicle: I am still gathering information for 1939 to June/July 1941 to nail down definitely the shades used. If your vehicle was made after June/July I think the KGJ would have been used.

KG1 and 2 were never used by the Australian Army and I have never seen samples of those colours. They may have some relationship to the development of the Breger colours but there is no evidence of this in the documents.

Prior to June July I have little to go on. The photographs suggest , as much as black and white photographs can , that deep bronze green was used. The only artifacts I have direct knowledge of are the two pounder held in the AWM and the Vickers MkVI B I once owned. They were both a very deep green but substantially different to the deep bronze green post war ( as used on ferrets Cents and Saladin etc )

That Australian 1939/1941 green seem somewhat different to Mike S sample chip.

Mike Cecil has informed me that some production pre 1942 was done in "desert yellow" This is still in the research to be done envelope. If that is so then just what shade was used will be interesting as Australia was developing its own "desert yellow" shade that was no where as "yellow" as the British shade'

[Mrs Vampire]

The yellowish colour your vehicle has faded to is typical of all the "greens" used in Australia.

No lead pigments were use din Australian MV paints during WWII. The source of the earth pigments seems to say the Yellow pigment used is the most persistent in any of the KG colours.

Your best bet is some examination including selected rub backs covered earlier in this thread . I would be happy to look at any photos you would like to put up and venture an opinion.

Areas least subjected to weathering are the best locations to try.chasis rails , behind panels and doors etc etc...

[Mike Cecil]

"Mike Cecil has informed me that some production pre 1942 was done in "desert yellow" This is still in the research to be done envelope. If that is so then just what shade was used will be interesting as Australia was developing its own "desert yellow" shade that was no where as "yellow" as the British shade'

It was called Light Stone or Portland Stone. Portland Stone in particular was a very 'washed out' colour, hardly yellow at all.

Vehicles allocated to the AIF in 1940-41 by contract were supposed to be supplied from the contractor's works in this colour, and those destined for the AMF were supposed to be finished in green (ahh, I hear you say .... but which green? The pre-war/peacetime green, or KG3????)

Mike

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

The yellowish colour your vehicle has faded to is typical of all the "greens" used in Australia.

No lead pigments were use din Australian MV paints during WWII. The source of the earth pigments seems to say the Yellow pigment used is the most persistent in any of the KG colours.

Your best bet is some examination including selected rub backs covered earlier in this thread . I would be happy to look at any photos you would like to put up and venture an opinion.

Areas least subjected to weathering are the best locations to try.chasis rails , behind panels and doors etc etc...

Hello Gina,

Thank you for your replies and for all the information. Much appreciated. How far away is your book from be released?

Kind Regards
Lionel