'Owning' Military History

[Mike Gray]

Bruce,
Well said. Your dedication and ability at preservation and restoration of history is appreciated by so many.
The 'First World War Comes To Life' group, out of Lindsay, Ontario, maintains and restores a stunning collection of WWI vehicles and equipment. Most of which have never been seen before. Their first display of the season was in February. Admission was by donation to local food bank. They served up period food from WWI as well. Also free.
I believe the amazing collection of Gulf War AFV's and re-enactors that was at Aquino Tank Day in Oshawa last year is owned and funded by a private collector. It would otherwise never be seen either, if left in the hands of government departments and institutions.
Who is in a better place to recover, restore and display our military heritage?
We are.

[Private_collector]

Here, here, Mike!

[rob love]

In fairness to the General, here is his complete post:

8 March 2016
Log Books
It’s interesting that there are three requests on the 3 Cav site for information about the ‘history’ of M113A1s that have been allocated to RSLs. One would have expected the log books to accompany the vehicles. I’ve suggested that the RSLs ask Defence for them.
If Defence hasn’t included the log books as part of the vehicles, then one hopes that they’ve been sent to Archives. In retrospect this would’ve been the preferable thing to do with the Centurion log books.
Presumably the log books were considered part of the vehicle and therefore accompanied the tanks sold to the public. Unfortunately the purchaser of the tanks later on-sold all the log books as a single lot to a private collector on a confidential basis. This collector now refuses to provide any details regarding the history of these tanks, eg. that owned by the Cairns Arty and Tank Museum.
The only Centurion log books now publically available are those at the AWM. These are for tanks which were supposedly disposed of as range targets … their log books went to Archives and thence to the AWM. (Unfortunately the log books for the tanks in the Tank Museum and elsewhere within Puckapunyal have simply ‘disappeared’.)
This raises the question (more a moral one than anything else) as to the extent that private individuals should be allowed to ‘own’ Australia’s military history for personal gratification.

Now he may have been talking about ownership of military artifacts, or he may be talking about the fact that a private individual ended up with the centurian logbooks and won't share them.

Note where the log books that were sent to the tank museum aren't....

I say it all goes to the planning and preperation of the governments in power. Save the history while it is still relatively fresh. It's not fair game to claim them back 50 years later, or put restrictions on the sale that were not there in the first place, thereby depriving the owner of the full market value of his investment.

[Mike Cecil]

Unfortunately, Rob, Lt Col Bruce Cameron MC (rtd) has not done his research. The statement :

"This collector now refuses to provide any details regarding the history of these tanks, eg. that owned by the Cairns Arty and Tank Museum."

... is simply wrong. I know for a fact that 'This collector', as he describes him, regularly provides information to both public and private museums (including the museum in Cairns) and to individual owners when requested. He just doesn't see the need to grandstand about it on public websites to appease the likes of Bruce Cameron, for the simple reason that it is nobody else's business but the 'collector' and whomever he is corresponding with.

Sadly, there are a number of statements on the Armoured Advocates blog that are in error, the above being just one of them. I didn't feel any need to waste the time of anyone on this Forum by discussing them.

Hence, my original post was about the more general 'moral' question raised by Cameron, which I thought was an interesting one. I have to agree with the majority of respondents that govts and public museums have severe limitations when it comes to preserving the full range of a nation's military history. Thank heavens there are avid collectors who act as the custodians of what the various governments discard!

Mike

[maple_leaf_eh]

I get a sense of moral outrage that some private citizen has chosen who can read the books in his library. So what? The books are papers, bought and sold to whoever had the most money at the time of disposal. The fact that they are now privately held doesn't seem to register with the LCol. The current owner has unique and privileged information. If someone asks nicely, I'm sure the two can work out a way to share it. However, if the requester is hostile or demanding, maybe the response is equally uncharitable. Give and get.

[Ian Johns]

I know with our small museum when it comes to vehicles we just can't afford the full restoration cost. I mean we are all volunteers. I would say for every dollar the museum can afford to invest in our vehicles at least five leaves my pocket. When we have an event at the museum it's the private collectors that bring out their vehicles and they know who they are, that make our event. Without them our show wouldn't be the same. We can never thank them enough.

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Terry,

Yes, 'a sense of moral outrage' - probably a very apt description of much of what underlies the blog, I suspect. Whether it is genuine or not is another question.

As I said, the only thing that has caught my attention and I thought of interest to this more widely experienced audience was the broader 'moral' question posed. I think that has been resoundingly responded to.

Mike