MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Armour Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-12-15, 00:49
Nech's Avatar
Nech Nech is offline
Martin Sedivy
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 65
Default Otter reconaissance car, CM 4647296

Cheers everyone!

Quite new on this forum (so HI to everybody!) Just transported home my new project - The Otter recce car - recently bought in Holland. One of the very few survivors. I think the complete restoration will begin in the following year.

And I am looking forward to it, as the vehicle is well preserved (has been dry stored for the last 40 years), so it can be called a true "barn find". The census number has been readable, so it is exciting to have the very original piece of real history.
Attached Thumbnails
IMAG0367.jpg   12240837_10207711565608906_581199161171245347_o.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-12-15, 04:33
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Very very nice. Truly an iconic piece.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-12-15, 04:39
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shouting at clouds
Posts: 3,081
Default

Very nice! Not many of them around.
__________________
Terry Warner

- 74-????? M151A2
- 70-08876 M38A1
- 53-71233 M100CDN trailer

Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-12-15, 05:16
Sam Assad's Avatar
Sam Assad Sam Assad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Kanata
Posts: 42
Default

And I thought barn finds were a fairy tale!!
Congrats
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-12-15, 14:42
lssah2025's Avatar
lssah2025 lssah2025 is offline
Driver Advance!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: St. Louis, Mo, and OCONUS
Posts: 485
Default

I have about 60 pics of your Otter if you want them, I looked at her a few years ago, but had to pass on her due to some circumstances.
__________________
39 Austin 8 Tourer
42 Humber Heavy Utility
42 C15A Wireless Truck
43 Humber AC MK IV F133744 "Vandal" tri-owner
43 A27L Centaur MK III T185481
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-12-15, 19:20
Nech's Avatar
Nech Nech is offline
Martin Sedivy
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 65
Default

Thanks gentleman,

I think I don't need more pictures now. Thank you.

First I started with little colour research and it was a big surprise to me. I was expecting standard camouflage colours, as were seen on the factory and other WWII pictures, as is displayed on the first Otter picture I attached (S.C.C. No.2 and No.1A Dark Brown stains), as per the 1942 camouflage regulations.

The factory picture is Otter CM 4647265 and is clearly painted with the "Mickey mouse" camouflage pattern. Mine Otter is CM 4647296 (31 machines younger), but I discovered it was originally painted with the older camouflage scheme (!), very often used in Italy (but in different colours).
Please see the attached pictures. The colours you can see on the pictures below are S.C.C. No.2 and more probably Dark Green G4.

For making me sure, I will take a sample of the green colour and will send it to one of the best Czech camouflage colour experts, Mr. Chory (Auradesign) who has the G4 sample from Mr. Starmer.

Up on the older camo pattern was also painted the red square (probably the div. sign) and up on this all was subsequently the next layer of paint - S.C.C. No.15, probably when the vehicle was re-painted under the regulations following in the years of 1944/45.
The last paint layer is some probably acrylic post war dutch paint.

I didn't expect it. It is strange, the older machine was obviously painted in the later camouflage pattern, probably straight in the factroy, and according to the fact, that we restorers are usually comming out from the WWII pictures, which are of course mostly black and white, I believe there is a posibility that the original factory pattern (at least until the original colour stocks were exhausted) was "brown - green" rather then "brown - dark brown". Or the rest of the greens were used used for a specific reason? Really don't know. It is not so much Otters nowadays around here, which can prove it... this might one of the last actually.

Also there is my other hypotesis it was a lot of Otters factory camouflaged for some specific theatre of operations, with more suitable camo.

I'd be happy for any clue from my more experianced restorer colleagues and fellow researchers as well as I also hope, that more colour examination in the near future will tell us more.
Attached Thumbnails
01.jpg   1.jpg   2.jpg   3.jpg   4.jpg  

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-12-15, 14:14
lssah2025's Avatar
lssah2025 lssah2025 is offline
Driver Advance!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: St. Louis, Mo, and OCONUS
Posts: 485
Default

Very nice information, I couldn't see all of the different camo patterns when I looked at it, the barn was dark and everything looked the same, glad to see it still has the colors. We were also contemplating if the interior had a fire, it appeared so by the black soot and possible burn marks, have you got to see about the interior?
__________________
39 Austin 8 Tourer
42 Humber Heavy Utility
42 C15A Wireless Truck
43 Humber AC MK IV F133744 "Vandal" tri-owner
43 A27L Centaur MK III T185481
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-12-15, 20:10
Nech's Avatar
Nech Nech is offline
Martin Sedivy
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 65
Default

There was no fire inside the vehicle. It was just the black paint. All the surviving wiring is unharmed as well as the wooden stearing wheel, which would be partly burnt even from a small fire.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-12-15, 03:01
lssah2025's Avatar
lssah2025 lssah2025 is offline
Driver Advance!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: St. Louis, Mo, and OCONUS
Posts: 485
Default

Glad to hear that...
__________________
39 Austin 8 Tourer
42 Humber Heavy Utility
42 C15A Wireless Truck
43 Humber AC MK IV F133744 "Vandal" tri-owner
43 A27L Centaur MK III T185481
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-12-15, 03:57
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
GM Fox I
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,606
Default

Just to throw something else into the mix. The remains of the CM number in the last pic is a stencil which means it is not factory, and is applied over the post-factory camouflage paint. From my experience GM armour left the factory in Khaki No.3, Brown No.2 or light stone (C-15Ta's olive drab in 1944-45) and were never factory camouflaged. There may have been brown No.2 Otters but I doubt it given the production dates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nech View Post
Thanks gentleman,

I think I don't need more pictures now. Thank you.

First I started with little colour research and it was a big surprise to me. I was expecting standard camouflage colours, as were seen on the factory and other WWII pictures, as is displayed on the first Otter picture I attached (S.C.C. No.2 and No.1A Dark Brown stains), as per the 1942 camouflage regulations.

The factory picture is Otter CM 4647265 and is clearly painted with the "Mickey mouse" camouflage pattern. Mine Otter is CM 4647296 (31 machines younger), but I discovered it was originally painted with the older camouflage scheme (!), very often used in Italy (but in different colours).
Please see the attached pictures. The colours you can see on the pictures below are S.C.C. No.2 and more probably Dark Green G4.

For making me sure, I will take a sample of the green colour and will send it to one of the best Czech camouflage colour experts, Mr. Chory (Auradesign) who has the G4 sample from Mr. Starmer.

Up on the older camo pattern was also painted the red square (probably the div. sign) and up on this all was subsequently the next layer of paint - S.C.C. No.15, probably when the vehicle was re-painted under the regulations following in the years of 1944/45.
The last paint layer is some probably acrylic post war dutch paint.

I didn't expect it. It is strange, the older machine was obviously painted in the later camouflage pattern, probably straight in the factroy, and according to the fact, that we restorers are usually comming out from the WWII pictures, which are of course mostly black and white, I believe there is a posibility that the original factory pattern (at least until the original colour stocks were exhausted) was "brown - green" rather then "brown - dark brown". Or the rest of the greens were used used for a specific reason? Really don't know. It is not so much Otters nowadays around here, which can prove it... this might one of the last actually.

Also there is my other hypotesis it was a lot of Otters factory camouflaged for some specific theatre of operations, with more suitable camo.

I'd be happy for any clue from my more experianced restorer colleagues and fellow researchers as well as I also hope, that more colour examination in the near future will tell us more.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-12-15, 08:52
Nech's Avatar
Nech Nech is offline
Martin Sedivy
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 65
Default

Interesting info Bruce. So I will carefully examine also the paint layers under the lower census number, which is also partially present.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-07-18, 13:26
Nech's Avatar
Nech Nech is offline
Martin Sedivy
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 65
Default Otter Mk.I for sale

Dear friends, with the pain in my heart I am forced to tiny my collection a bit and my rare Otter have to go, but the new upcomming project was so tepmting I couldn't resist. And since I could not afford all I want, sadly she has to go.
It is a known vehicle, and had been discused over here some time ago. She is in good, quite complete pre-renovation condition, I can send the full Otter portfolio on demand in .pdf. If there is some serious buyer, please contact me BEST via my email.

The Otter is now located in Czech Republic, shipping assistance is not a problem.
Attached Thumbnails
Milweb.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-07-18, 23:50
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shouting at clouds
Posts: 3,081
Default

Welcome to the grownup realities of the hobby. We are only temporary custodians of the artifacts, and cannot keep everything we want.

Good luck with the sale.
__________________
Terry Warner

- 74-????? M151A2
- 70-08876 M38A1
- 53-71233 M100CDN trailer

Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-07-18, 17:05
lssah2025's Avatar
lssah2025 lssah2025 is offline
Driver Advance!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: St. Louis, Mo, and OCONUS
Posts: 485
Default

Well Martin is getting another great vehicle for selling his Otter, I will let him divulge it when he feels ready... so 3 otters on the market at once....
__________________
39 Austin 8 Tourer
42 Humber Heavy Utility
42 C15A Wireless Truck
43 Humber AC MK IV F133744 "Vandal" tri-owner
43 A27L Centaur MK III T185481
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 16-07-18, 09:33
Nech's Avatar
Nech Nech is offline
Martin Sedivy
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 65
Default

ON HOLD now. Thank you everyone for your interest!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GMC Fox MK I and Otter MK I lssah2025 The Armour Forum 2 30-07-13 03:49
GMC Otter MK I lssah2025 The Armour Forum 11 25-03-13 19:54
GM Otter car Libor Zachoval The Softskin Forum 3 05-03-12 15:09
Any Otters in existance in Canada? james007 The Armour Forum 11 06-07-07 16:58


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016