M38a1 CDN2 - Winter Project

[Wayne Hingley]

Over the past couple of evenings after work I have been preparing my winter project ('67 M38A1), and today was sort of the "kick-off". I now have two main pieces, a few boxes of parts, and some other things scattered around.

The last time I pulled my '53 M38A1 apart was in the early 90's, and surprisingly I remembered most of the process.

I plan to sandblast or otherwise prepare everything for repainting and go through everything to reassemble a nice reliable jeep. I will post photos and lots of questions that I have (and likely a bunch of requests for parts...) as I go. I expect to be running by spring.

Wayne

[Grant Hopkins]

Seems like a good winter project. The last time I had my M38A1 CDN2 looking like that was 1989, I think it's time to redo it, but I have a few other projects ahead of it at the moment. It will get a repaint shortly though just to give it a fresh look until I have time to blow it apart. Good luck with your restoration, I will be keeping an eye on the thread for inspiration to do mine.

[Sam Assad]

Nice!! Hope you have fun

[Wayne Hingley]

Engine is pretty much ready to go. Moving on to frame preparation next.

[oldlithgow]

You have made some amazing progress Wayne, you have taking well passed where I got. I see you got the paint for the engine what product did you go with? Glad to see you are having fun with it.

[Wayne Hingley]

Hi Craig. Yes its moving along nicely so far, and it is certainly a lot easier to make progress with all of the things you have already done (new fuel lines, brake lines, etc.).

I pulled a couple of the patch panels that were riveted on to the body, and I will be pulling a few more when I get to the body work. I was pleased and amazed at what I discovered underneath... but I will post on that later, when I get to the body work.

I will followup with the paint details.

[Sam Assad]

Quite an impressive and inspiring progress ! cant wait to see more

[Wayne Hingley]

Does anyone know the reason for the difference between the right and left body support brackets over the rear axle?

[Wayne Hingley]

I spent about 3 hours with a hot water pressure washer cleaning up the frame, body, fenders and transmission. What a huge difference... well worth all the face-shots of steaming hot water!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Wayne Hingley

Does anyone know the reason for the difference between the right and left body support brackets over the rear axle?

Could simply be design if they are original. Does the body differ one side to the other?

[Wayne Hingley]

I know the mounting plate in the centre of the crossmember is for a MG pedestal, so I guess the frame brackets are for the side braces. I'm m just wondering why they are not symmetrical? Perhaps the left side is designed for the extra weight of the ammunition...?

[Wayne Hingley]

I made some progress today on my wiring harness. I went over the entire main section of the wiring harness and repaired some connectors and damaged wires/insulation. Overall it was in quite good condition. Most of the attention was needed in the sections leading to the tail lights. Of course that area gets a lot of water and mud off the rear wheels. After making the repairs, I re-taped the entire harness. I still have a box of short sections of wires to go through in the same manner. It feels good to get that bit out of the way.

[Wayne Hingley]

This jeep went through a rebuild (life extension), in I believe 1981. During that process there were many prefabricated body panels and other reinforcing components added to this vehicle. I was under the impression that these panels might have been added to cover up rusted out sections of the body, but after removing several of them I see that the body sections under the panels are actually in quite good condition. These panels were all riveted and glued in place. The body was sandblasted before the panels were installed, and the glue kept everything sealed so well that the sandblasted sections have not even rusted since 1981! Below are some photos of the panels and the body sections. Obviously I have more body work to complete in the coming weeks.

I even found a small spot of original semi-gloss OD paint hidden under a pannel in the back corner.

[Wayne Hingley]

Some more photos of the side and rear corner panels:

[Wayne Hingley]

There was a replacement floor brace section that was riveted on over the original (which had some rust issues). I exposed the original floor brace, cut out the rusted section along with the floor section that was also rusted, and prepared it for a new floor patch and floor brace (I can reuse the replacement that the CF installed). Im waiting until after sandblasting to replace the floor and brace.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Looking very good! I'll bet the CF never took the body off to do those rear corner patches.

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Looking very good! I'll bet the CF never took the body off to do those rear corner patches.

Thanks Terry. They actually did have the body off, and they did quite a lot of work to the floor braces etc. Its obvious that they were doing things in a production environment though... lots of goo-type filler, rivets and some rough edges. But thats stuff that I will play with, and get it nice and neat!

[Wayne Hingley]

I have been travelling for work quite a bit since the beginning of the year, so progress on the jeep has been a bit slow. If the weather for the next few days is corporative, I plan to get some sandblasting done on the frame and some of the miscellaneous small pieces.

[Wayne Hingley]

Hi Stuart. Yes it is a fun project overall.

I am using a Millermatic 211 wire feed welder with C25 shielding gas (25% CO2, 75% Argon). For the body work, I use a .023" wire size. Most of the sheet metal in the jeep body ranges between 18-20 gauge. The Miller has an "Auto-Set" function where you can input various set-points (wire thickness, shielding gas type, and metal thickness) and the machine will determine the proper voltage and wire speed. Alternatively you can also control the voltage and wire speed manually, and there is a reference chart under the feed cover. I tend to like the Auto-Set function, but sometimes I set it up for a slightly thinner gauge metal than I am actually working with (to prevent burn-through). I find the older body metal is a bit more susceptible to burn-through than brand new sheet metal. For example; while Im usually working with 18-20 gauge metal, I will set up the welder for 22-24 gauge metal (weld penetration is very good). I will switch back to .031" wire when Im done the body work. You can also weld sheet metal with .031" wire, but its a bit more sensitive.

The wooden frame with casters was a bit of a "make shift" thing that I put together quickly the day I took the body off, so that I would have something to place the body on. There was not a lot of thought put into its design, other than it is the same width and length as the jeep body, and it has the castors so I can move it around easily. It has worked well though, I have stood the body up on both ends to allow me access to work. I do use a ratchet-strap to stabilize the body when it is standing up on end. The castors I used are made for snowmobiles (its just what I had laying around). There is 5 sets, with 4 castors on each. I don't know what load they are rated for, but its way more than the little jeep body weighs. If I was going to do something different, I would probably sheet it in on the top to stand on. Its a bit of a tripping obstacle when I have the body standing on end. For my next stage of work, I will have the body positioned horizontally, so I can work inside. The current stand I have is too low for that type of work, so I will move the body onto some 24" high scaffolding. I don't want to be crawling around on my knees.

I agree, the use of various carts and dollies is very helpful when working alone. It is also super convenient when you need to shuffle things around to work on the "item of the day".

[Wayne Hingley]

Sandblasting of the frame complete.

[rob love]

Now would be the time to check for cracking in the usual spots. The pre-Cdn3 Jeeps were prone to cracking on the sides of the frame just above the front mounts of the rear leaf springs. The crack would run from the bottom and up to the little hole on the right side that had a frame clip running through it. The Cdn3 put an inside plate on the frame in that location which seemed to fix the problem. I have also seen cracking over the rear mounts as well, but not nearly as often.

Of course the other spot is the area above the bellcrank mount for the steering. They were prone to separation. You will usually find globs and globs of messy weld in that area, caused by the military welding the area upside down and full of grease.

[Wayne Hingley]

Thanks for the tip Rob. I had been looking things over and other than the welding you refer to, everything looks good. I went back and specifically took a look at the areas you mention, and I don't see any evidence of cracks or stress. Thanks for mentioning that, I definitely want to make sure all is good while Im at this phase.

[Wayne Hingley]

... and the bellcrank area.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Wayne Hingley

... and the bellcrank area.

The sparker's version of, 'if you don't know knots, tie lots'?

[rob love]

Yep, they look OK from here. The right side was usually the one that cracked where they had two holes directly above the stress point. It was more common that you would think. The extra welding at the bellcrank was very common, including attempts to weld the cast bracket to the steel plate.

[Wayne Hingley]

I just finished spraying the frame (3 coats). I chose to use a product called Chassis Saver. Ill splash a bit of OD on the frame after this stuff cures. I need to investigate the recommended time to cure before painting over the Chassis Saver.

[Peter Phillips]

Looking good Wayne! I've never heard of the product "Chassis Saver". I know of another product that works great for chassis which is POR15. I don't know how successful you would be getting paint to stick to it would be though as it's like a two part epoxy? What colour grey did you use on the motor, i like it!

[Phil Waterman]

Hi

Does Chassis Saver require a special over coat to paint over top of it or to under coat?

One of the issues with Por15 is that you have to use their special TieCoat if you want to paint over it to change color.

The comment about Por15 not sticking fresh new steel is very true, even if you have etched the steel, it may not stick. I've had problems where old steel with patch of paint the Por15 peeled off the clean smooth ares. For Por15 to stick you really need to ruff up the entire surface.

Look forward to more info

Cheers Phil

[Wayne Hingley]

I specifically avoided using POR15 because of all the sensitivities around its handling, preparation and application. I understand it is a great product when used correctly, but I didn't really want the risk of screwing it up.

When I purchased the Chassis Saver, the guy at the shop told me that I could apply my enamel paint directly over CS, once the CS has cured (I found out the curing time is 7 days). My due diligence may have been a bit light however, as I didn't really look in to the procedures for painting over the CS, beyond the conversation with the guy in the shop. I just sent a technical request related to this directly to CS, and I will post their response when I hear back from them. Fingers crossed...

[Wayne Hingley]

Through my local auto body supply store (who called the Chassis Saver rep while I was there), we found out that CS does not make a primer or coating to allow paint to adhere as an over-coat.

Paint will not bond to CS, and will peal off very easily. So... this changes my plans. While I really like the result achieved with CS, I do not want a black frame. Im considering a few different options, all of which include some sandblasting, epoxy primer & epoxy paint. More to follow soon.