Engine conversions

[aj.lec]

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9023

A thread that I started ages ago regarding different conversions

[Private_collector]

I recently bought a Ford with a 4 cylinder Mitsubishi Canter diesel and 5sp box fitted. It can do about 90-95km/h flat out, but if wheels were changed from 16s to 20s you would get more speed. Incidentally, the fellow that organised the engine change has done so in a manner which has not damaged or destroyed the original engine and gearbox mounts, so a flathead could be put back again. I can't imagine doing that. My criticisms of this engine swap are twofold. One, as it stands, first gear is very low. So low that it is almost redundant, but not quite low enough on second that you can start off with that instead. I know I will get used to that, but haven't so far. The other is the noise! If you are expecting a purring V8, the chugging of a diesel comes as quite a noticable shock. I say that playing devils advocate. Me personally, I love the sound of the diesel engine. It seems to fit the vehicle as far as I am concerned, and sounds like a serious truck. Between that and the noise of wind through door tops, it virtually ensures you don't have to make small talk with your passenger, unless you yell. I wish Ford had put diesel engines in em all. No, not really.

[John Hackett]

The first Blitz I bought was a F60L with an Isuzu diesel in it. The original engine mounts were used, but minor cutting and mods were done to the cab floor. The linkages were also changed to fit the gear lever and the end result is an interesting gear shift configuration. The cab was in good condition and the engine run well before beginning stripping down. I am a stickler for authenticity, but if I want a cheap running reliable work horse for a property, a diesel blitz would be the way to go. There is also a bloke around Toowoomba that has a modded diesel blitz, with a flat bed tipper, fully registered and used for shooting and timber work I believe.

[Bob Phillips]

Like Bob C. I also have opted for a 261 engine,1958 to powr my 15cwt chev, 13 cab. It is now completly rebuilt and bored to +030. I will not be installing a 235 head at this point ( don't forget to drill the 3 cooling holes in the head !!) and unfortunately the 1958 trany is too long esp with the brake band assy.
I started with a 292 but it seemed too long. At the front I think I can use th original aterpump but use a fan with less number of blades.
This vehicle had a 454 v8 transplanted into it many years ago but was an undrivable brute, and crude cab amputations to fit the beast in! I hopw I can find some large Michelins (11.00x16) or may have to go to 20 inchers as well. If you ever had to drive a loaded 3 ton with a stock 216 any of the obvious alternatives are a tremendous improvement!!

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

The whole issue of engine swaps have many things driving them. Personally I don't fault anyone for their decision or choice, because it generally means a CMP or other HMV continuing on the road.

I am in the situation where I have HUP with 216 basically original to the truck and fresh rebuilt which is not an inexpensive operation. A Pattern 12 C60L which now has a 235 installed as a fresh rebuild other wise all stock CMP. The third is a Pattern 13 C60S radio box with a 261. The C60S I drove for many years with its stock 216 so I know what driving 10,000 Lbs of truck with 84 Squirrel power in modern traffic is like.

(My average cost for complete engine rebuilds here in the US for the 216-235-261 engines is $2000-$3000)

Putting a more powerful engine may or may not make a CMP comfortable to drive at higher road speed of my three only C60S is happy at speeds above 45 MPH. Even with fully restored vehicles some like it and others don't. I suspect that is just the combination of all those heavy revolving parts and the little imbalances just make some trucks seem very busy and unhappy.

Now back to 235 and 261 engine swap it is possible to install these in CMPs with the stock fan and accessories and the stock transmission. If you don't have a original CMP bellhousing to work with the clutch hole on the right side standard 216 truck bellhousings can be converted to the other side.

The only thing about having the stock 6 blade fan is you need to match all the pulley sizes so that you don't over speed the fan. See http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/2...ifications.htm for more details. One other complaint from other people who end up driving in front of you. The guys driving Jeeps say they have the uneasy feeling they are going to get sucked in the grill of the CMP because of the fan noise. One guy described it as being like the Follow Me jeep with a fighter with a 10ft prop following him.

One last point about the conversion to other newer engines. As the stock of 216-261 engines is now all now 50+ years old the chances of finding good engines which will not have to be completely rebuilt is shrinking. So pick your engine transmission combination with an eye to what is readily available, physically will fit, but probably most important will end up having a RPM power and torque band not dissimilar to the original engine.

Hope this adds to the conversation and keep those CMPs running down the road.

Cheers

[Bob Carriere]

I had the same intention as you Bob of installing the original 1959 modern fully synchro 4 speed but found it would not fit the tight space between the tranny and T case so reverted back to a NON synchro CMP tranny. I assume you have spare CMP 4 speed to install or let me know...

On the water pump...... please look at it very carefully...... you may be able to get away with and fit a short shaft 261 water pump but the location of the fan willbe very low on your radiator and MAY cause some cooling problem.... the 216 water pump installed with an adapter plate will raise and center your fan much better. It will require that you drill and tap your 261 block and is much easier to do with the engine out of the CMP. We have done two conversion at the Barn and are very please with the installation.

We were fortunate enough to locate two 6 blades 216 gun tractor fans which really suck air through the radiator.

Phil's point of matching pulley size is crucial to prevent the jet engine sound and to prevent cavitation from too fast spinning of the water pump. Pulleys also come in various belt width size..... I am running a 7/8 wide belt with matching pulleys including one for the alternator which was easy to procure at a MF tractor dealer...along with the belt.

What are you doing with the oil filter system???? Don't forget .....DO NOT RUN your engine without a filter connected or a temporary bypass external line between the oil outlet and oil intake as you will fry your engine.

I choose to install a dual PH 8 spin on filters set up hidden inside the side frame and had 1/2 lines fabricated to hook it up. I like the extra oil capacity as it doubles for the cooling of the engine.

Would be nice if you showed us some pictures of your beast!!!

Cheers

[Bob Phillips]

Gentlemen;
I hope to get away leaving the waterpump down low but with a 4 bladed fan.if that doesn;t work I will try plan "B" and move the pump.
The original 261 had a canister type oil filter mounted on the manifold. Provided it will fit in/under the doghouse I will use it.
I like the idea of using a modern master cylinder (tucked under the floor somewhere) and would probably go for power brakes.My previous CMPs were never great in the braking department ( except for my first 3 ton with the booster) [I] suspect tghat one of the main causes of high speed wobble might the tremendous amount od semi balanced cast iron that spins around as the wheels turn. Anybody considered disk brakes??? or will this suggestion get me barred from the club and my membership torn up???