15-CWT, 2K1, WIRE 5 Body Details

[Robert Bergeron]

Gents,

I have had very nice conversations with fellow enthousiasts on the content of the box. Members like Gord Falk, Jon Skagfeld and Bruce Parker have all pitched in.



But to make a long story short , i would like the ''box '' to be historicly correct .

There are two versions to this story , so it seems : One 2K1 box version with two Johnson Chorehorses each producing 12 V. and another with a Onan 110 V generator on the bottom of the ''fridge '' or generator compatment and a Chorehorse producing 12 V .on the middle shelf. The one with the Onan would be for the High Power version of the 19 Wireless radio and the other for the regular 19 or two of them..

Apart from the radios and the generators , there are antennae, masts, headsets , wire , remote radios telephones and galore Signals equipment.

My guess is that inside the ''fridge'' compatment the upper shelf was occupied with spare parts and tools for the generators .

Does anyone have experience with this truck or knowledge of its use on this forum ? I know it's has been a long time since 1944 , but ... never know because they were used post-war..

Any camouflage nets , other special equipment ? Where for example did the map table fitted to the front outside of the box was to go in case of need ?

Was a penthouse tent really fitted to the outside ? With the tent fitted , did it ever saw use as a command post ? I have seen that use with CUCV trucks at company and Battalion level.

What was the routine around the operation of this unit ?

Anyone ?

Thanks, cheers .





Robert

[David Dunlop]

Robert.

Been watching your restoration with interest. An extremely fascinating CMP to restore, but in it's own way, very complex to do correctly when you consider all the specialized equipment needed to kit it out. I started one back in the early 1980,s and it took me seven years just to find all the bits I needed. Ended up three parts short before selling the lot to Don Perry in Edmonton and he was able to complete a fantastic restoration.

Your info is correct regarding two possible versions of this vehicle. Wilson Truck built all the bodies to a standard that the Army could kit out either with two chore horses (lower fixed and upper portable), or with one chore horse in the upper portable position and the lower spot occupied by a fixed 110 volt Onan. Somewhere in my files I have the model for the Onan. The dual chore horse setup was by far the most common configuration. Hense, when you look at the wiring diagram inside the lid of the panel box on the upper front right wall, the Onan circuitry is outlined with a dashed line as being optional. The 110 cable from the generator compartment to the front right corner of the wireless desk was there, but not used if dual chore horses were in use.

If the Onan was installed, the layout of its exhaust came very close to some of the internal wiring inside the gen box. To protect this wiring, a curved metal shroud came with the Onan, along with a spring loaded storage bracket and a small white warning decal with a red border and printing that explained how the shroud was to be installed when the Onan was operating. This bracket was mounted on the side of the gen box, in the upper right corner above the mounts for the two rifles.

As for the desk assembly. It was stored, as you noted in the brackets at the front end of the box. In use, it mounted on the left side of the body, below the Cipher Clerks window. Two large holes support the round hooks on the rear end of the desk frame and above them are a set of keyholes the side chains for the desk hook into. By the way, the Cipher Clerks window screen has a spring loaded mailbox flap fastened to the middle of it. This allows the Cipher Clerk to receive outgoing messages and deliver incoming messages when the penthouses on either side of the body are in use. Saves time running back and forth. The Cipher Clerks window is the left side rear.

By the way, when painting the interior, all of the inside of the gen box is the same colour as the exterior of the vehicle, including the two safety screens. The inside of the rear door is also the same colour as the exterior (as are the two blackout switches for the rear door and the gen box door). Lastly, all window frames inside, including the blackout curtain assemblies are also the exterior colour. The blackout curtain fabric is black.

Hope this helps a bit. Keep up the good work.

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Thank- you very much David, very helpfull advice and knowledge.

Robert

[David Dunlop]

These things can be a bit of a challenge since the longer the vehicles were in service, the more variations in wireless equipment they were likely to carry and the more different mounts installed.

Originally, with a 19-Set on board, the left side (driver side) chimney mounted the A-Set Mount No. 8. The middle chimney was blank and the right chimney took the B-Set Mount No. 9. This makes perfect sense when you consider the vast majority of these vehicles went overseas. This orientation places the longest aerial closest to the centre of any road the vehicle travels, minimizing problems with any overhanging trees.

The middle chimney which was usually blank, could be used as required to mount the Base Plate, Vehicle Roof from the Antennae, Vertical, 34' Steel Mk I Kit. This plate allowed the 20 ' Mast to be installed on the roof of the wireless box and fully extended to nearly match the fully extended 34 ' mast mounted on the ground. This created a very tall horizontal aerial arrangement.


David

[David Dunlop]

To help focus information specific to the actual design/construction of this delightful 15-cwt truck body, I have started this thread and our trusty moderators can hopefully move some pre-existing items from another thread to this location.

A number of these particular truck bodies have survived around the world but often have seen so many modifications during their lifetimes, it is difficult for a restorer to get a good handle on what this truck body actually looked like rolling out the doors at Wilson Truck Body brand new.

David

[David Dunlop]

Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when I was tracking down missing parts for my own 2K1 Wireless Body, I had the great good fortune of being able to study over 50 examples of this body the local Princess Auto dealer conveniently had sitting about their property and from which they were more than happy to sell off any parts I needed and could remove. Happy Days!!!

One bit of these bodies puzzled me back then, and still puzzles me today, so if anyone can shed some light on it, it would be most appreciated.

On the left side of the body, directly below the rear window (Cypher Clerk's Window), midway up the body, is a small rectangular compartment. The cover has a finger tab on it and hinges down when pulled open. Inside are a pair of heavy duty, threaded, electrical posts with wing nuts, mounted horizontally on a quarter inch thick plate of brown circuit board. If memory serves, a '+' and '-' sign are engraved into the board and filled with white paint beside these two terminals. Clearly, this access is intended to connect an external power supply of some type. The puzzle comes on the inside. On all of these bodies in the Princess yard, not one showed any signs of ever having had anything connected to it on the inside. In fact, this terminal box is totally isolated from any of the 12-Volt or 110-Volt systems inside the body and does not even show up on the body wiring diagram. If something was connected to it on the inside, the connection would be quite close to the Cypher Clerks knees when he was seated at his small table, which could prove rather disturbing, if contact was made.

Has anybody ever found any documentation explaining what equipment this terminal is intend for? One of the Generator Trailers is a possibility, external to the Wireless truck, but what was connected on the inside?

David

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I think that was for the grounding spike.

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when I was tracking down missing parts for my own 2K1 Wireless Body, I had the great good fortune of being able to study over 50 examples of this body the local Princess Auto dealer conveniently had sitting about their property and from which they were more than happy to sell off any parts I needed and could remove. Happy Days!!!

One bit of these bodies puzzled me back then, and still puzzles me today, so if anyone can shed some light on it, it would be most appreciated.

On the left side of the body, directly below the rear window (Cypher Clerk's Window), midway up the body, is a small rectangular compartment. The cover has a finger tab on it and hinges down when pulled open. Inside are a pair of heavy duty, threaded, electrical posts with wing nuts, mounted horizontally on a quarter inch thick plate of brown circuit board. If memory serves, a '+' and '-' sign are engraved into the board and filled with white paint beside these two terminals. Clearly, this access is intended to connect an external power supply of some type. The puzzle comes on the inside. On all of these bodies in the Princess yard, not one showed any signs of ever having had anything connected to it on the inside. In fact, this terminal box is totally isolated from any of the 12-Volt or 110-Volt systems inside the body and does not even show up on the body wiring diagram. If something was connected to it on the inside, the connection would be quite close to the Cypher Clerks knees when he was seated at his small table, which could prove rather disturbing, if contact was made.

Has anybody ever found any documentation explaining what equipment this terminal is intend for? One of the Generator Trailers is a possibility, external to the Wireless truck, but what was connected on the inside?

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Bruce and David,

The connectors look to me like they were meant to power a 19 or other wireless set when it was set up outside the box in the penthouse tent . All you had to do is install a jumper cable from the batteries to the inside terminals.I have seen those connectors wired to the sets of batteries in the box. The Gibeau truck at the CWM and the truck at the Signals Museum in Kingston are set up that way.

Bruce i agree a ground spike would be a great idea especialy when using shortwave freq. and in thunder storms. Anyone else can chime in on that issue ?

Going back to the Onan. David , the shroud you were talking about. In my box the housing for said shroud remnant is present on the outside of the gen compatment just over the rifle mounts..wich could mean my box was set up for the Onan and the High Power version of the 19 . interesting discovery.

So the table goes outside under the Cipher clerk's window .

What is the tube for at the front of the box left side ( passenger ) just beside where the table would be stored ? It's like 5' -6' long and in a vertical plane near the corner ? My hypothesis is that it's for flexible or whip antennae.

Lastly ( for now, it is all the energy i have left for tonight ) , what are those lodgings or housings outside the box just over the rear door ?

Thanks a lot for the help and knowledge.



Robert

[David Dunlop]

Hello Bruce.

Interesting possibility for a grounding connection, though I do not recall this particular fixture making contact with the steel framework of the body at all, just the plywood interior wall.

Robert.

Terminals for feeding 12-Volt to an externally located wireless set makes sense, but I wonder about the logic of going to all the trouble of disconnecting a perfectly operational wireless from it's location on the table inside to grunt it out to a penthouse? Then again, in the Army, what the Sgt wants, he usually gets!

Just a detail regarding the Onan. In addition to the 110 Volt output routed through a dedicated heavy duty armour cable to the 110-Volt plug at the right side corner of the wireless table on the front wall, it also featured a 12-Volt DC feed that served as the fixed wireless battery charging station for the vehicle. This way, the operator still had two charging sets to work with between the wireless battery sets, and the 110 feed for whatever required it.

Not sure about the fittings you mention above the outside of the rear door. Post a pic and we will have a look. The only fittings usually present back there apart from the ladder are the 34 ' Mast brackets behind the ladder, top and bottom, the door catch on the lower section of the door and the door hook on the lower wall just to the left of the rear gen box ventilation hatch that engages the catch.

Oh, and before I forget, yes, the tube mounted along the left front edge of the box holds spare A-Set whip sections, easily accessed by Herbie when he is on the roof of the truck mucking about.


David

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

The exterior map table that hangs off the right side, when not in use, mounts on the forward face of the box on the driver's side. You should see an angle lip on the bottom for it. And I think you're right, the tube is for F and G aerial sections.

[Robert Bergeron]

David,

Fascinating .

So,

1- 20' mast up front top of outside of the box- horizontaly .
2 -34 ' mast verticaly behind the rear LADDER
3- Map/ work / wireless table stored outside the box at the front
4- A-set Antennae / aerial F and G in tube front of body in a vertical plane.

.. heads hurts...

5- Pioneer tools left front outside body ( shovel , pick axe )

6- Onan generator producing 110 V AC AND 12 DC fixed in lower generator compartment and a moveable Chorehorse in the upper position.

7- A shroud for the Onan lodged in a housing on the front of the generating compartment above the two No 4 rifles.

8- A 110 V outlet inside at the front of the box to the right of the radio table.

That is a lot of knowledge for one sitting my friends. Thanks.

Q. What goes on all those little shelves spread out in the box ? They have footman loops and canvas straps either side of them

How about telephone exchanges and remote radio / telephone sets ? . How were they set up ?

Enough for me tonight. Robert out . I am bushed .

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

7- A shroud for the Onan lodged in a housing on the front of the generating compartment above the two No 4 rifles.

What is this mysterious shroud you speak of and what is its purpose?

[Grant Bowker]

WRT the outside connectors and the idea of a ground spike - why would the terminals be marked + and - ?
To my mind, without any proof of how or why, the +/- markings only make sense for transfer of DC power (either in or out of the body).

[David Dunlop]

Bruce.

The shroud for the Onan was covered on page 2 of RichCam's thread, before Robert suggested we push this detail info to a separate thread. We have asked the Mod to move those posts over here to keep Rich's thread clean for his fascinating restoration project.

Best regards,

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Bruce my friend,

7- Shroud , Onan generator.

David suggested earlier that the Onan generator generated a lot of heat and that a special shroud was needed when in operation so as to not to burn out the wiring wich ran very close. That '' shroud '' would be stored when not in use in a special bracket afixed to the front outside generator cabinet over the rifle brackets.We had discussed earlier you and i in another thread the use of such bracket.

9- Tool compartments under body, front , either side. Q. Were they metal or wood ?

10- Numerous little shelves with footman loops and canvas straps inside box .

Q. What are they for ?

Do we have a consensus that the plus and minus terminals on the left of the box under the cipher clerck's window were for a 12 V DC power source ?

Over to you gents.

[David Dunlop]

Robert.

Hope you had a good sleep.

One other detail about the 110-volt system came to mind. The plug mounted up by the wireless table is an almost square steel electrical box with a single round two prong socket centrally fitted in it. Above it, screwed to the front wall is a small brass plate advising the plug is 110-volt only.

With regards to all the shelving, that is still largely a mystery. I do know from seeing all the boxes at Princess Auto, the canvas straps were all originally khaki tan in colour. A few boxes showed OD green replacements, probably done in later military life. The tan often bleach out over time to look white, but not so.

I suspect the large shelving unit to the left of the rear door, held the leather aerial tool bag, the two canvas penthouse assemblies and probably the crew's personal kit. The Chorehorse and Onan tool chests were stored on the top shelf inside the gen box. Spare fuses for the power system were stored in a little compartment inside the power panel. To sort out all the other shelving, I think we would need to find official storage layout info for the wireless box. The only obvious bits are the headset brackets on the front wall above the wireless table and the paper bin over by the Cypher Clerks station.

I need breakfast!

David

[Robert Bergeron]

David,

As for your earlier comment on the exterior 12 VDC on the left side of the box , here is my real life experience concerning that :

When a contemporary ( meaning 1980's - today ) Signals truck is used in the field in a command post position for example , you have a tent or group of tents forming a work station for the Brigade Staff to hang around and do what staff do. I don't want to go into specifics because that is not the subject.

The Signals personnel would workinside the tent , dismount what is dismountaeble in order to be with the Staff in the tent and be close to pass on orders over the net.

A 2K1 box is may be not a Brigade level equipment but at Battalion or even company level i would see the ''penthouse '' house a few officers including a CO or his 2ic with signals personnel. Signal trucks are too small to accomodate so the tent would add space away from the elements.

So it would be logical to have a No 19 set or smaller unit on the table outside the box in the tent.The 12 VDC outlet would supply current from the batteries inside.

The Signals Van of today work pretty much in the same manner.I am not a Signals officer but an end user . I work at Brigade Staff level in those situations.

I hope my hypothesis will help advance the discussion on the subject and that a signals officer or NCO can chime in and correct me if i am wrong.

[David Dunlop]

Robert

You're awake!!!

The bins under the box either side are standard metal Chev tool bins to hold all the vehicular tools. They look externally the same as Ford bins but the front face of the inside shelves differ between the two, one is straight and the other dips in the middle. Cannot remember which is which at the moment.

Robert.

If you have the bracket for the little Onan Exhaust shroud still mounted, look closely around it, below or to the left, for traces of the Instruction Sticker. As I recall, it was plain white paper with a glue backing, maybe 3 x 5 inches, vertical orientation. There was a red 16th inch border line around the edge and the printing was all red. I believe it actually referenced the Onan Model number installed in these vehicles. I have a slide picture of it from one of the Princess Trucks somewhere, but as Rob Fast can confirm, my photo organizational skills are not the best. If I find it I will definitely post it.

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Gents,moderators

I think this whole discussion is wireless oriented now and should be moved to that room as to not crowd Richard's excellent restoration thread.

Sincerlely.

Robert

[Robert Bergeron]

David,

Strange that they would use metal tool bins on an aluminium body that was devised to save weight ? But if they were standard on Chev trucks , standard goes a long way in production savings.

11- Blackout kill switch. On modern trucks there are kill switches that dim or shut off the interior lights when the access door is opened when in blackout mode . That was to prevent lighthing up the night and revealing your position to the ennemy .Was that in use in the 2K1 body ?

That pretty much sums it up for me. 2K1 bodies are pretty much the same i imagine as M-152 trucks of the 50's and CUCV radio trucks of the 70's and 80's for the routine of operation by personel. Shifts , maintenance, filling the generators, extending the aerials , telephone wire.

Then there is camouflage of the unit , remote antennae in order to prevent homing on the transmitter, command post , CO, and getting direct artillery hits.Sentinels, guard duty around the bivouac and shell trenches have to be dug.

I do not think that a single shovel and pick axe in the front of the body would be sufficent for those purposes . That is why i think that there was a lot of stuff carried on top of the box strapped to the rails. Camouflage nets ( a necessity in war ) , extra shovels , picks , buckets for water ( firefighting in the bivouac.)

You should see the amount of equipment carried by a modern signals unit to sustain itself in a campaign.

Q. What would our beloved canadian soldiers have used for heat in the box ?

There was winter in NWE during the 44-45 campaign.

[David Dunlop]

From what I have read on the wartime 15-cwt metal wireless bodies, even with the complaints directly from the Army about the excessive weight issues with earlier versions, it took some serious arm twisting to get approval to use any aluminium at all for vehicle construction, since it was so critically needed in the aviation sector. What weight could be saved from the body skin change alone was enough to get approval.

Yes, two blackout switches are used in the 2K1 bodies. One is mounted on the inside rear door frame, upper left corner, viewed from the outside of the vehicle. The square ceiling lights/ventilation fan wiring channel extends back to the door to loop this switch into the circuit.

A second blackout switch was also installed on the inside door frame of the gen box in the upper right corner, when facing the door. I cannot recall the wiring run for it at the moment, but it was needed if the generators were running at night as the two ventilation doors in the right rear corner of the vehicle would be open and as you mentioned, if somebody opened the gen box door from inside the body to check something, it would not be a good thing.

I would love to find photos or film clips with these vehicles on the road during the war to see what they looked like. There was very likely some sort of 'official standard kit' they all carried, but signals equipment options above and beyond that are enormous and like you, I wonder how the crew dealt with that? On their own, support vehicles or what?

It would be interesting to run a wireless set inside a fully restored 2K1 and test for the amount of radiated signal produced and detectable from outside. One of the first things I noticed on the outside of mine was the amazing number of grounding straps installed between the body of the truck, the frame and the cab. It was nuts! And then, when I pulled out the interior plywood, I could not get over the number of copper grounding clips used when the aluminium skin was riveted to the steel frame. When I finally got around to restoring the window assemblies I discovered the screens on all the windows were copper wire, not the steel wire I had expected. Showed it all to an electrical engineering friend of mine who has worked all his life in commercial and amateur radio and he said it was the closest thing to a Faraday Cage he had seen. Emissions were probably very low.

Cheers for now. Have to go and cook up a big pot of home made chilli for dinner!

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Here David, ask and you will get.

Hope it works, the upload of wartime pictures.

[Robert Bergeron]

Left Photo taken in Bergen Zoom The Netherlands.

I think it is the early version of the C-15 Wireless truck because i see the Chevrolet emblem in the grill but the observer hatch is square.

That box would be metal. Also, i note all the handrails on top are either absent or were removed.

I see a tent or penthouse behind the cab , on top and at least an antennae base.

I see Recce vehicles , some armoured all around the square. So , an armoured recce regiment with it's wireless / radio unit ( the box ) stationed in a town in Holland .

No other outside stores apart from the tent.

Comments, ideas ?

[Robert Bergeron]

Observed in the square ; A lot of Jeeps, many CMP trucks, a Lynx , at least one Stuart tank and a Skink or AA armoured vehicle. What is that tank , broadside in the middle rear of the picture ?

But at the front definitely a C-15 Wireless truck .

[Robert Bergeron]

David, Bruce

Picture 1-Here is the mystery bracket on the outside of the generator compartment.

Picture 2- The 12 VDC outlet for the outside of the box as seen from the inside.

Picture 3- A 2 Chorehorse installation.

[Robert Bergeron]

sorry David,

You had described picture No 1 as been the gen shroud . That mean the shroud itself is what is hanging on the wall under the small shelf . Am i correct ?

Robert

[Robert Bergeron]

Gents,

Here is the 110 VAC power outlet for the Onan equiped version of the CMP C-15 Wire 5 truck, just to the right of the radio table.

Q. Was there a 110 VAC outlet on all versions ? 110 VAC could be supplied as David mentionned from an outside source like a generator .

This CMP truck is getting to be an amazing quest to say the least !

So many questions,,

[RichCam]

Guys,

Jim and I currently have an opportunity to open up the paneling and look behind to see where the 12 VDC outlet goes on this particular box. To substantiate the exterior canopy idea, there are 4 angled holes that have been installed into that side of the exterior of the box that look like they could support some sort of awning or tent rod? Regarding Onan or Chorehorse generators, I will look more closely at the rack and the surrounding bracketry and housings.

Monday, we will check it out, take some pictures and post to this thread.

Richard

[Robert Bergeron]

Well , good morning Richard, hope you are well .

Interesting that you would mention the angled 4 holes in your discussion.

I have found an interesting picture detailing the map table that fits in those 4 holes.According to David , the lower holes are for the studs protruding from the table to fix it to the box and the higher two for the chains holding said table horizontal.

The picture was posted by a fellow MLU member but i do not recall his name right now .

What you see in the picture is the map table stored at the front of the box.

[Robert Bergeron]

Gents,

In this picture taken by our friend richard when he had the box sandblasted we clearly see the tube that is in a vertical plane used to store aerials we were discussing earlier.

We also see the map table storage bracket but in a different position than in the previous picture of another box.