Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Mrs Vampire]

Today I rubbed back most of the rear armour and found all the stencils for the Axe, Mattock, Handle and Shovel .

I had a look at the closeness of commercially available paints and the Light Stone looking for a somewhat near match. I have around 100 colour chips in the whitish department and the only thing that is vaguely close is colorbond Paperbark.

Nothing in the Australian Standards or the BS colours is near. It looks like they modern colours are too pure where my Tank is a muddy whitish yellow.

Next I suppose I will have to attempt to mix up something on site and do my own eye match. I have three sources where I can have a look at original specification chips but no way to take those chips to a dealer to have them matched. I have spoken to Dulux, CSIRO and Sydney Uni seeking access to archival material from the time..none of them have any . The Australian Standard ,posted here earlier in the thread, is made from Unobtainium.

The Factory applied British Dark Green is all over the rear of the Tank and in good shape where it is beneath the Light stone.

The American Stencil Blue is an exact match to that currently made in the US
by the Drab Olive supplier.

Looking at my photos The colour is only mostly like them it is different on account of how the camera deals with light. Same for colour cards held up against the job they come out blindingly white yet held up against the paint they look quite close to the eye.

I also found drips of Yellow paint between the light stone and the green. My guess is that the Turret Squadron and Troop numbers were yellow. My Stuart was A squadron 13th armoured.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

I had a look at the closeness of commercially available paints and the Light Stone looking for a somewhat near match. I have around 100 colour chips in the whitish department and the only thing that is vaguely close is colorbond Paperbark. Nothing in the Australian Standards or the BS colours is near.

Gina, how close is BSC 361 Light Stone? In theory it should be identical to original BSC 61 Light Stone.

[Mrs Vampire]

Hi Tony not sure. I will have to get some mixed up. At least with the british paint the standards still exist and exact colours can be made.

I am also saddened to learn that all the good work Bob Mosley put into getting a set of standard colours up is lost.

Protec in Adelaid no longer employes Bobs contact and the formula was never put into the computer. I think this is a tragic loss of some hard done research and Bobs legacy.

I am working on three mixes of green and still at a loss as to how to transfer the Light stone on my vehicle onto something reproducible.

I know at least that modern pigments react to light quite differently to the originals so no photograph will show the paint identically . Its all about how radio waves react with particles on a surface.

There is also a problem /difference with matting agents . The modern ones will not go as flat as 1942/3 paint. It seems to be a struggle for Modern paints to get below 10% which is low sheen .

[Mike Cecil]

Wartime instructions called for adding very fine sand to increase the 'matt-ness'. Is that an option?

Hard to spray I imagine, but could be brushed on. Problem is keeping the sand evenly distributed throughout the can while dipping the brush - the paint at the top will quickly change 'matt-ness' after only a very short time of no agitation.

Gina, I have to applaud your tenacity: the end result should be very satisfying for you.

Mike

[Mike K]

Talcum powder works as a flattening agent

Also fine silica powder as used by potters , the hobby shops may help out ?

[Mrs Vampire]

Hi Mike

I may try to flatten using flatting base from the refinisher shop.

I think I may try to find a paint technologist from one of the major paint companies and have a chat.
The project has moved slightly from finding the correct colours to reproducing them.

It is really hard to get the people down at the paint suppliers across the issues. It saddens me that every restoration seems to have to go through this .

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

Hi Mike

I may try to flatten using flatting base from the refinisher shop.

I think I may try to find a paint technologist from one of the major paint companies and have a chat.
The project has moved slightly from finding the correct colours to reproducing them.

It is really hard to get the people down at the paint suppliers across the issues. It saddens me that every restoration seems to have to go through this .

Hi Gina,
I have been following your thread and know that it relates more to your country but the following may be of interest.
We are very lucky in the UK that there are so many paint companies who are willing to produce the various shades of paint for our restorations. The type of paint mainly used is a synthetic alkyd paint which is 2 hour quick drying of a type made for machinery use. One make I use is HMG Paint, Speedline C71. It is usually supplied as a semi-matt, which appears to have a sheen to it, but after a few weeks of curing and slight weathering it matts down very nicely. The benefit of this finish is that not being dead flat matt it does not show oil or grease spots and can easily be cleaned.
Something to explain regarding dead flat matt paints, a guy came to me quiet distraught as he had restored his jeep in the original US shade of Olive Drab, his first test drive revealed an oil leak from the transfer box that resulted in the whole of the back end of the jeep body covered in oil spots. I trying to clean it, the situation was made worse, the paint absorbed the oil. I think you will find if using a dead flat Matt that it may look good initially but on a short time of use, hand and foot marks will mar the paint as well oil and grease, etc., which once in the paint, will not come out.

When I worked in army workshops the camo paint had a slight sheen and was not what I termed "blackboard paint", which is what a dead flat matt is like.

I wanted a sample of the British SCC No.2 Brown for a restoration and was lucky to find a bracket for a regulator box with a large patch hidden from dirt and light for about 70 years, this was checked by a paint company and replicated with great results. If you cannot get a part of your tank to a paint company, ask if they might have a representative in the area who could bring a colour tester out, if you convince them there is a market for sales to other enthusiasts, they may well play ball.

regards, Richard