RAAF Derrick Trucks

[Lang]

Richard,

I think we are getting in to navel gazing on this nomenclature. I reckon the bottom line is, the Brits named things and wrote their manuals with their language usage along with such weird (to the rest of the world) "accumulators, stranglers and dynamos" for batteries, chokes and generators. Just like we think an accumulator is a rich man and you thought back in the 40's battery was a criminal offence while we thought the same for stranglers.

A number of Australian versions of military vehicle manuals have a translation page with Australian, British and American columns for the names of various parts of a vehicle. It runs into dozens of items with Australian general usage being split halfway between British and American terms.

The only time you will hear Derrick here is in reference to boats, historic railway station cranes and sometimes high rise tower cranes are formally referred to correctly as derrick cranes.

I think "Derrick in and Derrick out" for raising and lowering a boom - sorry jib -is not a sustainable description for current use. Nearly all cranes now have extensions and unless we use "Erect and Flacid" for booms extended and retracted the terms "In and Out" must be sensibly used for the extension function and "Raising and Lowering" the boom used in their proper sense also.

The main thing is the people using the gear know what it means and even if the manuals used a Russian term for the equipment everyone would know what it was very quickly from common usage. How many M1's are there in the American system referring to equipment ranging from rifles, signal equipment, food processors to trucks. Nobody says "Private, wash the M1 Rotary potato peeler, 4 horsepower, portable" the cook will know from usage what the sergeant meant when he says "Private, wash the M1".

I will see you all at the Pedantics Anonymous meeting at 4.33 and 23 seconds at the town hall.

Lang

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lang

I think "Derrick in and Derrick out" for raising and lowering a boom - sorry jib -is not a sustainable description for current use. Nearly all cranes now have extensions and unless we use "Erect and Flacid" for booms extended and retracted the terms "In and Out" must be sensibly used for the extension function and "Raising and Lowering" the boom used in their proper sense also.

Hi Lang,
I am not really pedantic, but it seems that from some peoples interpretation the word Derrick must be a lifting apparatus that traverses, left and right, well that would have been unlikely on Mr Derrick's gallows
We were talking about 70 year old vehicles so equipped so nothing to do with current use.
To change lanes, the army here had Leyland recovery vehicles in the 1950's and they had hydraulic crane jibs, the action of elevating up or down was called "luffing". Not a term you see used on cranes.

Interesting discussion anyway

[Mike Cecil]

..... and a few more spanners, since we are continuing on this topic, from the Encyclopedia Britannica:

'Derrick, a type of crane; the name is derived from that of a famous early 17th century Tyburn hangman, and was originally applied as a synonym (see Cranes). The derrick of the petroleum industry is a skeleton framework or tower of wood or steel for hoisting or lowering from a fixed point. It is used to raise or drop the drilling tools and also to insert and remove the well casing or pipe.'

And from the Shorter Oxford: the original definition was simply 'A hangman; hanging; the gallows' . And on that note, I think I've 'hanged about' in this thread long enough.... I'm off to the Town Hall to meet up with Lang!

Mike C

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

I'm off to the Town Hall to meet up with Lang!

Mike, I would join you two at the Town Hall, but you will probably be gone by the time I got there, its a long walk from here

[Lang]

Richard,

I think it is to do with both universal traditional (bastardised) and local dialect usage. You seem to have different usage of terms.

Luffing is the universal term for raising and lowering crane booms and all cranes in Australia and those sourced from USA and Japan have Luff Up and Luff Down on their controls. Riggers and Dogmen if talking to the crane driver always say Luff Up or Luff Down. Raise and Lower are the terms for the rope/hook but when working, drivers know if it is not preceded by "Luff", the more commonly used "Up" and "Down" refer to the rope/hook.

Obviously if you have a non-extendable boom and do not have a running rope (just a hook on a pole), "Luff Up" is exactly the same as "Raise" -or just "Up" -and "Boom in" so the dogman has a choice of 3 correct instructions for the same movement!

Enough from me.

Lang

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

I'm off to the Town Hall to meet up with Lang!

Hurry up guys, I'm here waiting for you! I'm worried about my demountable crane, should I be calling it a derrick instead?

[Lang]

Tony,

As you are in Australia it is definitely not a derrick (no slew).

I think the logging guys would call it a lifting pole but if you want to get posh a crane would cover it.

Lang

[Tony Wheeler]

Thanks Lang, I'm relieved to hear it's still a crane in Australia, it's not easy being an international pedant!

[Mike Cecil]

And what an UPLIFTING thread..... takes the WEIGHT from my shoulders .... certainly no LET DOWN .....

Mike C

[Keith Webb]

I'd just call it very useful.

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Hurry up guys, I'm here waiting for you! I'm worried about my demountable crane, should I be calling it a derrick instead?