Fitting tall guys in Cab 11/12's

[Alex van de Wetering]

I agree, please tell us more Tony! I am likely to encounter the same trouble with my C8 cab 11.

I did see a C15 before that had the engine cover corner closest to the pedals slightly bent towards the engine by use of a wooden spacer.....this gave the owner just that more room for his foot.

Alex

[Tony Wheeler]

I'll post some details on steering mods shortly but first I'd like to specify the precise problem so we're all on the same page.

The critical dimension for tall people, which for convenience I shall refer to as dX, is the distance between the clutch pedal and the bottom of the steering wheel. That's because there's no room to swing your knee to the left, so your leg must remain under the steering wheel when operating the clutch. Therefore if your lower leg happens to be longer than dX, you cannot drive a Cab 12. No amount of seat adjustment can alter dX, and only an osteotomy can alter your lower leg length.

Conversely there's no problem operating the brake, because there's room to swing your right knee against the door to get it out from under the steering wheel.

Hence there are two possible solutions:

1. Create more room to swing your knee to the left.
2. Increase dX.

Solution 1 means relocating the handbrake, which is the first object blocking your left leg, but immediately adjacent to that is the engine cover, so that too would require modification, which would inevitably involve the dashboard as well. These are extensive and challenging modifications which would impact drastically on originality, and furthermore they're entirely unnecessary. Why do I say this? Because I'm 192cm tall and I can drive a Cab 13 comfortably with my legs under the steering wheel. Sure, there's room to swing my knees out on both sides, but the point is I don't NEED to. That's because dX is 40mm longer on the Cab 13, owing to the new pedal levers.

Thus we have confirmation of Solution 2, and we can now quantify it: Increase dX by 40mm. There would appear to be only two realistic methods:

A. Raise the steering column. This means shortening the steering column bracket, which alters the steering column angle slightly, requiring a shim between the rear steering box mount and the chassis.

B. Lengthen the steering column. Not a job for amateurs like me, but offering the tidiest solution which best preserves originality. Advantageous for those preferring to send the unit out and pay someone else to do the work.

Either of these methods will achieve 40mm dX increase, and considerably more if preferred, so there's clearly no obstacle for tall drivers wishing to own Cab 12s.

I should state here that my 40mm spec is based solely on my own Cab 12, so it needs to be confirmed on a few others. I also have questions about the steering column bracket found on my vehicle.

[Keith Webb]

Tony can you post a pic of the steering column bracket in case it's different from the standard? The Rover with the dash with hard angles on it looks like a standard cab 12 one but with about a 2" block to lower it, and the one with the rounded edge dash looks more like a Chev cab 12 bracket.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Tony can you post a pic of the steering column bracket in case it's different from the standard? The Rover with the dash with hard angles on it looks like a standard cab 12 one but with about a 2" block to lower it.

Well done Keith, I see you have your thinking cap on!!

As Keith says, the vehicle I saved from the scrappy was formerly a Rover armoured car. By way of background, the following info from Keith's website:

"Based on a Ford cab 12 F60L chassis, the Australian Rover Armoured car was not a big success, being overweight and having poor cross-country performance, only 238 were built from late 1941. There were two basic variants, the Mk 1, or long wheelbase and Mk2 which used a shortened F60L chassis of 134 1/4". With a crew of 5 they earned the nickname of "mobile slit trench" because of their appearance. Their main use was in crew training. Hulls were built by both the Victorian Railways workshops and Ruskin Motor Bodies. The last was delivered in September 1943."


Pictured below are the two variants, with the "mobile slit trench" on display on the Mk 1. My particular vehicle was a Mk2 which appears to have been converted back to a standard GS truck during the war - the upshot being possibly the only Cab 12 F60S in Australia! As mentioned earlier I had no plans to own a Cab 12, and after trying to drive one three years ago I assumed it wasn't possible for someone of my height. Like Sjoerd I was astounded at the time, because I've driven some of the tiniest sports coupes ever built, and yet here was a TRUCK I couldn't squeeze into! However it seemed to confirm everything I've heard and read about the early cab being "cramped", so it came as no surprise to me upon getting this ex-Rover home that I could not sit in it and operate the clutch. Just like three years ago my leg jammed under the steering wheel. But wait!! What's that strange block under the steering column bracket? More on that in the next exciting episode....

[Nigel Watson]

Love the Armoured Car . Anyone got other photos or details of it?

[Tony Wheeler]

These are the only other pics I have myself Nigel, but I'm sure there are more around. The Armoured Corps Museum at Puckapunyal in Victoria has a Rover on display.

[Tony Wheeler]

Here are some pics of the steering column bracket, which as Keith says is standard Cab 12 but with a spacer block. Interestingly it's solid copper. Obviously it's a Rover part, designed to lower the steering wheel inside the low-roofed hull, but it got me thinking: What if I RAISE the steering wheel? Would I be able to drive a Cab 12 after all? Naturally I set to with some excitement and rigged up the steering column a bit higher, and sure enough it worked! Pic 5 shows the steering column raised 20mm at the bracket, which raises the steering wheel approx 25mm. Doesn't sound like much but it makes a world of difference to me - it means I can own a Cab 12!

In reality this experiment means that ANYONE can own a Cab 12, because you can shorten that bracket a LOT more than 20mm. However, the FIRST thing you need to do when considering a Cab 12 is check the seat. As Phil said earlier: "If you are really tall and have a Pat 12 you may want to remove one or both of the wooden seat spacers to lower the seat." Phil is absolutely right, the seat height makes a HUGE difference. There's no seat cushion on my Cab 12 so I'm sitting on the bare metal seat pan when conducting these experiments, so they're not valid for normal driving. However there's a 30mm wooden spacer under the seat frame, so if I remove that I can have a 50-60mm high density rubber seat cushion, which should compress down to 30mm under my bony arse, thus replicating the conditions of the experiment. In fact if I want to I can easily modify the seat mounts and gain a further 45mm, which would allow me to use the much thicker sprung CMP seat cushion. Now we're REALLY talking luxury!

Sjoerd, what this means for you is that if the F8 has wooden spacers under the seat frame, which I imagine it does, there's no way you could have operated the clutch. You may want to contact the seller and ask him to measure them, because that could be the solution for you. It may not be necessary to shorten the steering column bracket after all, at least not immediately anyway. Removing the wooden spacers may be enough to get you on the road.

Another point to note is that you can set the clutch pedal 20mm depressed, by means of a thick rubber stop behind the toe plate. Again it doesn't sound like much, but it makes a BIG difference for me. Obviously it would reduce full pedal travel, but there's 200mm travel on mine so we're only talking 10% reduction here. There's always a bit of spare travel on a properly adjusted clutch.

Anyway there are 3 areas for improvement - seat, clutch pedal, steering wheel. Cumulatively they offer huge potential for improved comfort in the Cab 11/12, and for tall people they are the avenue to ownership.