Chevrolet C8 1940 Cab 11 restoration, The Netherlands

[Bob Carriere]

HI Alex

I have never...yet.... taken a shock absorber totally apart for fear of destroying it...... but how else can I learn.....

I am not sure the shaft mechanism would withstand the pressure of a hydraulic press or heavy pounding to instal the arm. and it might not be necessary....... if the arm was heated hot to dull red and the shock assembly cooled in crush ice it should slip on......

My probelm as always been trying to remove tha rm from the shaft. If I was guaranteed to be able to find a repacement seal that would fit the shaft then heating the arm around the shaft/hole area should get it to move.... but were do you find the seal....... need to destroy one to understand if it can be repaired.......

Will add to my "to do" list for the next rainy day....


To Cletrac.......... problem is the arm is small and rounded edges....so fingers from a puller usually slips...... would need the bolt on pulley device to allow the fingers to graps properly...... but there is very little room.....

Does any one out there have an answer..... has anyone removed the shaock arm from a shock absorber....????

Bob

[Alex van de Wetering]

Bob, Dave, no luck with removing the shock arm so far. The "fingers" on my puller are thin enough to fit in between arm and shock housing, but the fingers slip off every time the pressure rises.
I think the Hydraulic puller as Dave mentions could do the job, but it all comes down to the fingers of the puller itself. Some sort of a fork that fits round the axle would be better than two separate fingers, I guess.

Alex

[hrpearce]

Alex you need this atachment for a hydraulic puller for the best chance of sucess. You could try a hose clamp around the botom of the fingers it may work.

[Bob Carriere]

You need that two piece gear puller to have a good purchase with the fingers of the puller.

I tried that...... I was getting some serious tention on the puller..... and even greased the acme tread to be sure it would not gall up on me..... no luck !!!!!

I am sure heat woulhave made the difference.

Why are they so hard to remove...??

Bob

[Alex van de Wetering]

Well, It's been ages since I posted a progress report, so it's about time. Sadly I wasn't able to spend too much time on the Chev over the past few months. One of my biggest supporters of the project passed away, so as you can imagine the priorities shifted and there were lots of important things to do, none of them involving old rusty trucks.
But, we are back on the project and I will try to post some pictures today and later this week to show what I have been up to.

I moved my attention from the rear springs to the front springs, due to a lack of the proper replacement parts and inspiration. Both springs were disassembled and rust removed with the rotating wire brush and many hours of energy. I fitted new bushings in all springs eyes.I used one of the old rear springs pins and the broken breaker bar to remove the old bushings (after heating the spring eye). The spring pins are about the same size as the spring eye of the front springs, so that worked really well. I installed the new bushings after heating the spring eyes again and using the attaching bolts to force the bushes in with a hammer. The bolts ensured the bushes didn't "implode". One of the brass bushes required some gentle reaming with the Dremel multi-tool...job sorted!

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

As you might remember one of the front springs on my truck had an extra leaf installed and the spring clips were crudely lengthened and holes redrilled next to the original ones. I was expecting to find one or more broken or overbent leafs in the spring, but that was not the case. So, I shortened the spring clips again and re-assembled the spring with the correct amount of leafs. All leafs were stripped of rust, primered and sprayed before re-installing them with new bolts, new centre bolt and spacers for the spring-clip, cut from some steel tubing.

One of the axle bumpers was far gone, while the other is actually pretty good. Budget is tight to I only replaced the bad one and cleaned up the original one. The replacement rubber is about half an inch taller than the old one, so maybe I will end up replacing the other one as well....

I was able to salvage a good threaded bushing from my Chev and re-installed it in the frame with help of a new pin. Heating up the bracket on the frame works really well for removing or installing a new bushing. Yes, you need a hammer, but it doesn't take enormous force to get it into position.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Just as I wanted to re-assemble the rebuilt Front springs I realised I forgot to order new seals for the spring pins. The "Filling station" offers cork-rubber seals for the early 40's trucks and rubber ones for the late 40's trucks. "Chevs of the 40's" only stock the full rubber type. In the end I found a dealer in the UK who had the seals and they were here in Holland the next weekend with some help from my brother who lives in London.
Assembling the springs was only a few minutes work; new bolts, pins, bushes and grease nipples were fitted.
After the advice from Bob and Phil I attached the upper fender supports and indeed....there is another bolt hidden between the fender and support....the last bolt I needed to remove before I could disassemble the nose panels with the vents......well, after I realised left and right are combined into one with a small panel in the middle......the one with the hole for the engine crank.
Thanks guys! Most of the nose is now removed.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

While taking the nose section apart, I noticed a cut in the arch bar to clear the steering box. The cut is rather crude and seems to be done with a torch......not factory I guess(?). Also the plate surrounding the steering shaft and pedals seems to have been altered to get it to fit around the steering shaft. Anyone recognize this? Is this C8 specific or was my steering box "Saginaw gear" replaced at some stage?

I dropped the rear shock absorbers off at a friend who didn't have too much trouble removing the arms with help of a hydraulic press. The original C8 arms are now fitted to the rebuilt shocks I bought on the web.

Alex

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Alex

The steering box looks Odd the filler extension on the top of the box is something I have not see. I'll look through the manuals I have and see if I can find it. Plus the front or bottom end looks different .

Bob have you seen anything like this before on a Cab 11?

Wonder if all the change is due to a post war leak that was fixed by making it easier to add lube to the box.

This is the steering box without any adjustment for angle of the box correct? Not like the attached photo which is the later and larger CMPs. So the misalignment in the floor does not make sense is there any indication of movement of the steering box mounting bracket to the frame or that dash/firewall has moved. Your earlier frame photos don't show any indication of anything being bent.

How about a photo of that side of the frame and the cleaned up steering box and bracket to try and figure out what has moved.

Cheers Phil

[David DeWeese]

Hi,

That steering gear looks identical to the one in my C8 down to the lube fitting on top. I will take some photos tomorrow and get back to you.

Thanks, David

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Folks

By strange coincidence I acquired a 1937 1 ton pick up frame last weekend..... Looking over the rear spring hanger of the C8 against my 1937 civvy frame and I seea lot of similarity.

Alex what is the width of the springs on the C8 you have... mine at 1 3/4 wide front and 2 1/2 rear.....

I have the steering shaft/gear box also ..... will need to go to the barn tomorrwo eveing to check it out....... it looks similar but mine does not have that pipe arrangement on top but a simple pipe plug. Could this haev been a crude fix for a leaking gear box and a cut int he arhces to facilitate refilling...?

Alex can you measure the frame tickness near the location of the muffler support bracket...... which again is identical to the CMP bracket.

My frame is 7/32 thick..... and my C15 a is a solid 1/4 or 8/32. The height of the 37 frame is 7 inches at the muffler bracket location and pefectly flat to the rear like a CMP. In earlier pictures of Alex's C8 where he is fixing the rear corners of the frame..... I seem to have the same bracket arrangements.

It seems the C8 and the civvy half ton frame had a curved in the frame above the rear axle..... the one ton I have is flat and straight as a needle.

I will have more pictures of the frame when weather permit..... I suspect more similarities will be found ....after all the CMP "pilot" were built on/of available civilian parts.

I will attach the few pictures I have... the engione which was the purpose of the whole quest.

Bob

[Bob Carriere]

Ran out of room....

...engine totally rebuilt never ran....

Also have the 4 speed tranny and bellhousing LH clutch opening of course.

The flywheel is also unusual for the original 216.... the flywheel is dished with greater mass than a typical 216 I am accustomed to...... looks more like a heavy duty arrangement I have seen on farm tractors where the clutch arrangement is recessed in the flywheel... in any event it is heavyyyyyy!

Will take some better pictures of my steering box this week.

Alex do the brake drum look similar...... it has original 16 inch rims and original tires were 6:00x16 or optional ballon tires at 7:50x16 ........ rear end is 4:11

Enjoy

Bob

PS..... frame was sandblasted and braked redone on all four corners.
......wonder if the beam front axle is similar........ is similarity exists than civvy 37 parts came be used in the resto of C8

[Alex van de Wetering]

Thanks for your replies guys. I cleaned the steering box a little bit and took some more pictures to add to the discussion.

Phil, this is indeed a rather simple steering box without the possibility of adjusting the angle. I compared the steering box and bracket with the bracket on my replacement chassis and all seems identical.....no new holes drilled or any kind of shims or whatever. At the dash end all seems to be stock(?).

I had another look and I think i can repair the arch bar without it hitting the filler for the steering box. Maybe the cut was done because it made it quicker to fit the steering box??? Normally the nose panels sit over this end of the arch bar, so access to the filler is only after disassembly of part of the nose or by reaching under the front lip of the fender.



I can't seem to find any modifications to the footwell panelwork, except for the extra space for the steering shaft and pedals...

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Bob,

Yes, I followed the last road trip you guys did in the Hammond Thread. Good job on the engine and frame! The frame does look very familiar, but measurements seem to be a little different from the C8 though. I seem to remember that Dave Pope found the source for the C8 frame.....made from two different civvy frames if I remember correctly (?)

C8 measurments: Front springs are 1 3/4 wide, rears 2inch wide. The C8 uses 1/2inch spacers in order to fit the rear springs to the "normal" spring hangers and shackle.
Close to the exhaust muffler bracket, the frame is 5 3/4 high and about 2 3/8 wide. The thickness is somewhere near 4,4mm....

I haven't had a chance yet to examine the drums. Maybe Dave, David or Mike can help out here?




Attached are two more pics of my steering box....

Alex

[David DeWeese]

Hi Alex,

My C8 has the steering box pictured below....looks like the same one as yours. I added that brass fitting and grease nipple to the lube port on mine when the seal failed and started to leak gear oil.

Here is a photo of my original rear brake system that was pulled from the C8.

Thanks, David

[Bob Carriere]

I must admit the steering box looks like it fits there, looks the part and David has the same so it must be original.

Too bad the arch was torched but a bit of welding and grinding can fix that.

Now as to the floor wooden board spacers dried up and panels shifted it may have resulted in the modified pedals and steering tube stretch mark. In my opinion not so unusual ..... in fact almost every cab 11/12 I have do have some kind of cut modifications or the metal has been stretched and worn to new dimensions. I suspect that over the 70 odd years it has been around the wooden spacers and other fasteners inside oval bolt holes have allowed some movement.....sagging..... body twist..... to the point where the holes have either been enlarged by rubbing or the owner got tired of all the squeeking that the cut the holes larger. I have the same problem on my cab 11...... any major maintenance where they had to remove part of the body it probably never got assembled correctly again.... my fenders have a series of extra bolt holes which I am not welding until I figger out which ones to plug weld shut. Even the whole floor plate assembly, the two side floor panels and the larger cross piece under the seats can be moved about 5/8 to 3/4 inch from one side to the other and forward and back if all your bolts/screws are loosened.......and the frame holes worn big enough.

According to factory pictures the whole cab 11 was assembled on a stub frame jig than lifted as one piece unto the frame with all the sheet metal fully in place........ partly explains why trying to reassemble my cab on the frame one piece at a time is such a nightmare.....Phil's solution was to assemble it all loose.... shake it in place.... then tighten everything fast before you sneeze.

Ah the good old days before automated computer controlled welders on assembly line...

On the brake assembly they do look different....similar technology for the time but different..... brake drums maybe the same with a special adapter for the CMP model .

Bob

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Alex

Getting the body panels to line up on Pat 11 and 12 is a job. As Bob pointed out put all the bolts in loose then tighten things up. I found a trick using bolts a nut and washer to do the alignment it is a lot quicker than using the actual screws.

Take a look at photos on http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/SheetMetalWork.html to see what and how did it.

Keep us posted your progress, going to be a great truck.

Cheers Phil

[Alex van de Wetering]

Guys, thanks for your response.

@ David. Excellent.....exactly the same box as mine!

@ Bob. My idea exactly....the decay of the wood supports under the cab may have "lowered" the cab a wee bit, resulting in the clearance problems with the steering shaft. I did indeed study the pics on the servicepub factory photos CD and at least Ford built the cabs on a jig.....probably Chev as well.

@ Phil. I am a regular on your website and was looking at your cab12 assembly pics last night. Based on Bob's and your experiences I will certainly try to do the same approach as you did. Your bolt trick is a good one as well and probably cheaper than the things used in aviation (what's their name again....clecko's??)

thanks guys,

Alex

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Alex

Bolt alignment trick using 1 1/2" x 1/4 x 20 in this case to quickly align the bolts going into the captive nuts, came about while I was having to constantly installing and removing panels to work on them and putting in all the pan head screws was killing my wrists. The bolt with a nut on it is so quick to install and remove run in by hand then just a quick twist on the nut with a wrench and it is tight.

Even if the panels are warped you can get a lot of them to come into line loose then tighten up the individual top nut. Once you are ready for finial assembly tight them all up, then replace them one at a time with the correct bolts.

Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

Meant to ask you Phil....

You had used a bunch of very low grade Chinese Grade 0.5 bolts if I remember.. did you spot weld the nut 1/2 inch up the 1 1/2 inch bolt for speed.....?

I have replaced all my old captive nuts and procured new SS domed head slotted screws..... which I plan to dip the heads in rifle blueing acid to hetch them for painting.....

It is a trick to figger out all that slack/looseness from original oval bolt holes and the worn elongated ones..... maybe I will drive it around to shake things in place....hihihi

Bob

[Alex van de Wetering]

I picked up the shocks from my mate about a week ago. As mentioned earlier the press made swapping the C8 arms to the replacement shocks I bought online an easy task. I marked the arms and pins with a white marker, so the new arms could be installed at the same "time". Now I only have to replace the rubber bushes. I bought some rubber bushes from a Dodge a while and hope they will fit.

Disassembly of the C8 continued and I dropped off some parts at the blaster...rood, seat frames, grille and some other small bits. I was very happy when I heard that there was actually something to pick up after the blasting

All four springs have now been refitted to the frame. pictures to follow in a few days.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

By the way, does anyone have some good pictures of the radiator cap outside and inside as fitted to the ealier Chevs? My cap is missing and before i can have my rad examined I have to get that cap sorted. The cap looks a lot like a fuel tank cap doesn't it???

Alex

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Alex

Will need to take some pictures of my cap...... Brian Ashbury may still have some NOS...... they are similar to the gas cap but externally very different.


Bottom line if you can find one that fits the locking tabs you are in business as they are not menat to seal tight as modern rad caps anyways...... should fit snug enough that if you use an expansion tank it will flow properly..... my overflow is a plastic pop bottle for the time being.

I am amazed at the fine spline work on the shock absorbers no wonder they rust weld so nicely. We have tried on a few occasion to remove the arm on some of ours and never succeeded maybe we did not use enough force....... we tried heat but you can only heta them so much before you cook the seals....... we just did not want to ruin any of them. In most cases once drained and refilled with car jack oil they seemed to stiffened up nicely.

Cheers

Bob

[Alex van de Wetering]

Attached are some pics of the rear spring work

One of the clips actually broke while removing the remains of the old bolts. Bob mentioned earlier in the thread that they were quite easy to make from flat stock, which is what I did. Some bending, hammering and drilling later the clip was done (and grinding as the flat stoch was actually to wide).
I used the grinder to cut the head of the old rivet. I cut a slight oversize hole in the new clip, chamfered the hole and welded the new clip to the old rivet. The lot was then assembled with new nuts, bolts and bushes/spacers.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Installing was quite easy, although you have to make sure the spring pins are properly aligned before hammering them into the spring hangers! One pin slightly rotated and it was a bit of a *(&(* to get it a aligned to get the locking bolt in.

@ Bob. here you can also see the spacers a C8 uses to fit narrow leafs to normal spring hangers.
Two of the spacers from my C8 were pretty worn, so I had two new ones made by a machine shop, along with two brass bushes for the spring eyes. Earlier in the thread I mentioned that the replacement spring eye bushes were to small for the spring eyes...in the end this was only the case with 1 spring. Somehow this spring had slightly larger spring eyes....I guess it musy have been replaced some time during the life of my C8.


@ Bob (sorry...again)...Brian was indeed able to help me out Thanks! So, a 216 doesn't use a high pressure cooling system? Does that also mean the stress on the rad is less, so I only have to gravity test the rad in stead of pressure tesing it by an expert....? Or am I cutting corners there?

Alex

[Bob Carriere]

I guess Spring as arrived !!!!!!

Glad Brian was bale to provide the NOS cap...... you could test if you wish....garage usually have a machine the fits on the rad opening and the hand pump up to 10 to 15 pounds and look for leaks......A real pressure test requries removing the rad....plugging all openings except the one for the tire valve fitting and using a compressor to load the rad..... then the hwole thing is submerged in a (usually vry filthy) water tank and you look for bubbles to pin point the air leak.

For our purpose...... if you cap is on tight and after running hot for 30 minutes it does not leak....you're good for the road. If I used a hand pump I would not test any higher than 2 or 3 pounds of pressure.

Like a 6 cyl. flat head Dodge engine a Chev can be driven for a long time with the rad cap missing and will not boil over......

Bob

[Alex van de Wetering]

I guess Spring as arrived !!!!!!

da-dum-dum-tseee

Thanks for your comments on the cooling and rad Bob; will have another good look at it soon. Maybe I will move the rad work till after the engine is done, so I can check both together.

The C8 is really looking quite sad now as stripping has continued under the tent. I have started labelling the wires which will hopefully help with the buildup in the future. Some wiring has been cut, so I do have some sorting to do in due time, but Phil's wiring webpage will probably help a lot here.

I try to store the smaller parts in the garage and the bigger parts in the back of the C8 until the parts are ready for refurb. When the parts are done I install them at the other end of the yard, under the carport, where the chassis and springs are on axle stands.



I basically have the parts ready to re-install the rear axle, but as the setup of the drive shaft on the C8 is somewhat different from other CMP's, I wonder if re-installing the rear axle and shaft is wise considering I am installing the gearbox and engine later on????
The reason I want to re-install the rear axle is that soon I want to move my attention to the brake and new brake lines.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Most of the last two weekends went to further disassembly of the C8, now basically leaving the 216 and the frame. Next weekend will hopefullly see some assembly work again!
While disassembling I came across a few details hat I found interesting to share;

The lower fender/arch bar supports are bolted to the frame with four bolts. I was surprised to find that the lower nuts weren't actually nuts, but flat stock with thread tapped into them. This was the case on both the left and right hand side of the truck.
Between the arch bar and the support on the right hand side, I found two shim-type thingies! I guess to level the cab. Anyone seen these before?

Last pic is of the drivers seat. In my truck the drivers seat is placed on top of some wooden blocks, while the co-drivers seat is placed on a slightly angled piece of sheet metal.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Pics of the wooden blocks. One of the pieces has a (part) number on it.

And the engine number I found while removing all the crap from the side of the block!

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Guys,

I am trying to work out the rooting of the brake lines and placement of clips in preparation for making new brake lines. I have fitted the remains of the old lines and the master cylinder in the frame to work things out.




-The front section of brake line is probably about the same for all Chev CMPs. Is this section of brake line only held by the two clips just under the radiator?

-The holes in the side of the frame where the above brake line meets the brake hoses....were these holes originally fitted with grommets?

-The rear brake line going from the master cylinder to the right rear section of the frame.
My brake line was cut just behind the cab and one clip remained, which is positioned on the inside of the rear cab support (see picture). Does anyone have a pic of the original rooting of this section of brake line? Is it just a straight line from this clip to just in front of the rear shock absorber...than curving to the bracket which secures it to the rear brake hose....all without clips?




what about the electrical wires running to the rear lights (only right hand side on my truck)??? is this just loosely positioned on the inside of the frame rails or held on with clips???

Comments would be very much appreciated!




By the way, I am still looking for a "brake tee"..."connector"....."junction block"...Chevrolet #596883, please see my thread in the for sale section:

http://mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20272

Alex

Alex