Blitz (and related) bits on Ebay Australia

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

it would be unreasonable to compel them to risk a lower price than they've already been offered elsewhere.

There is a quite simple mechanism available to the Seller - the Reserve price. There was apparently a price he was not prepared to go below, as the listing already featured a reserve. If bidding has not yet reached that price and a prospective Buyer contacts him with an offer by phone, the seller would have two choices.

1. Accept that offer, withdraw the item from auction, and never know if any other bidders would have been prepared to pay more (the true "Market Value"), or

2. Raise the Reserve to the level offered by the phone caller and, as a show of genuine interest, invite the caller to submit a bid at that price to secure the item at auction. Other interested bidders could then decide the true market value by bidding higher, or allowing the item to sell at the reserve/phone offer price.

This is especially true in situations where the Seller is not accurately aware of the value or rarity of an item. Believe it or not, there are unscrupulous people out there who will try to hoodwink a seller by trying all sorts of ruses to get them to sell an item below market value before bidding heats up.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Believe it or not, there are unscrupulous people out there who will try to hoodwink a seller by trying all sorts of ruses to get them to sell an item below market value before bidding heats up.

I certainly believe it Tony! However, knowing the price in this case (but not feeling free to divulge here) I can report that it was a reasonable offer for the two trucks, with no attempt made to cheat the seller. I suspect they would have fetched a bit more on ebay, but not dramatically more, and there's always the risk they would have fetched less, even if the phone caller had bid his offer (remember the seller only gets the SECOND HIGHEST bid, plus a small increment).

Note too that the phone offer was for both trucks together, which makes it impossible to set a matching reserve price, because there were two separate auctions. Furthermore, the price offered may have been CONDITIONAL on getting both trucks, ie. to spread the cost of recovery across two purchases. Apparently one truck is destined for the buyer's mate in NSW, so I imagine they'll split the recovery costs.

Anyway I can see why the seller accepted the phone offer - it was a reasonable price, he got rid of both trucks in one transaction, paid for and picked up the next day.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

(remember the seller only gets the SECOND HIGHEST bid, plus a small increment)

Please explain?

H.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Please explain?

Does not work on an item no one else bids on.
But, if an item is starting at $200 is say bid on twice , and the bids are $250 and $300, and I am the highest bidder, I will only end up paying around $255. The second highest bid and a bit more.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Does not work on an item no one else bids on.
But, if an item is starting at $200 is say bid on twice , and the bids are $250 and $300, and I am the highest bidder, I will only end up paying around $255. The second highest bid and a bit more.

Ah yes, you are referring to putting in a maximum bid, the maximum amount one is willing to pay. The software will automatically outbid other bidders by a small amount up to your maximum bid. But the seller (and other buyers) will not know what your maximum bid is until it is actually reached. So the seller does get the highest bid, and the buyer only needs to outbid other buyers by a small amount. The seller can set his minimum bid by setting a reserve price. All fair enough if you ask me.

H.

[Private_collector]

How's this. I bought a pair of flathead v8 engine mounts from a seller in USA. Deal went well and I got the parts, no problems. I actually need another 1 mount (I used one of a set on the rear cross spring on Ford cab), and buy another pair. Yesterday I notice that paypal $$$ sent back, and I contact seller for reason. He says it just happened without him doing it! My, my, how strange. Then says he has since cancelled transaction, and I can re-buy......BUT the catch is that the postage price has now gone up somewhat. No mention of that from the seller, I just see the difference when considering re-buying!?!?!?

When I first contacted asking what happened, he wrote firstly "Hi Tony, I was wondering the same thing. That happened to two orders on the same day, and both order to Australia. Do you want me to cancel the order and we will try again? I have never had that happen before. Go figure? thanks for getting back to me {sellers name here}"

I do NOT ask for cancellation and tell him I will re-send the money via paypal.

Then "Hi Tony, I tried to reinvoice, but it wouldn't let me . I sent a n ebay cancelation on the first sale. please respond to the cancelation notice and and reorder. I don't know of any other way to get around this . Thank you {sellers name here}"

The following is my reply, after I investigated a little first. Hope you enjoy reading it, like I enjoyed writing it:

Hmmmmm, OK. So you did actually cancel the sale.
In reviewing the transaction details I see the reason given by you as "Buyer purchased item by mistake or changed mind"
We both know that is not the case. I have also noted that the postage costs have mysteriously increased quite a few dollars from the postage advised at time of my purchase. Now correct me if i'm wrong, but here's how it looks from my perspective:

A purchase price and shipping costs are advertised. I buy from that price, and here is where it gets a little odd, mysteriously funds are returned with no contact from seller, and from your previous email you indicate you WERE aware this had happened. You then cancel the transaction, reporting I had changed MY mind, which for all I know may be regarded as a black mark against MY ebay record. I then get in touch asking for answers, and am advised that in addition to funds sent back, transaction now ended. Then I can repurchase, for a higher price ($6.00 more shipping, after agreeing to cancellation of previous transaction, including agreeing to the reason for cancellation as being an error on MY part.

I had purchased an identical item from you a little while ago, and had no problems with the transaction. I even left good, positive feedback for you. This new transaction really gets me interested. Now, I don't know you, and you don't know me, BUT at face value this episode looks for all the world like a scenario where postage costs have either genuinely increased (or not) and there might me an opportunity to get those extra bucks by terminating the earlier transaction, in favor of a 'new' purchase where the added costs exist. I see now the cancelled item has the greater postage price on the listing. Someone who wouldn't know what they were doing might not notice this. I did. As I said, I don't know you, apart from what I see happening here. The original postage cost is on my paypal record and the previous purchase. Your thoughts on how this looks???

Anybody else have an experience like this before? I have!

[Ryan]

I haven't faced that situation before Tony, but I don't buy a lot of things from overseas. I'm interested to read his reply when you get one...hopefully.
Ryan

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Ah yes, you are referring to putting in a maximum bid, the maximum amount one is willing to pay.

Yes, the seller only gets what the SECOND HIGHEST bidder is willing to pay (plus an insignificant increment). As opposed to a normal auction (house auction, disposal auction, clearing sale, etc.) where the seller gets what the HIGHEST bidder is willing to pay. There's often a big difference on ebay - I'm sure we've all bought items for considerably less than our maximum bid.

Obviously when someone makes an phone offer he'll have to pay what he offers, but the fact remains he's at a huge advantage over ebay bidders, because he's the only one conveying his maximum bid to the seller. In practice the seller has no idea what ebay bidders are willing to pay until the final few minutes/seconds of the auction. The strong temptation therefore is to accept the phone offer - a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

As Tony says, the seller has the option to increase his reserve price to match the phone offer, and invite the person to make a genuine bid. In this case that wasn't possible, because it was a combined offer for two auctions - and possibly even conditional on getting both vehicles. However, even in the case of a single auction, there's always the risk the person may not bid his phone offer - he may "cool off", or get run over by a bus. In that event the new reserve price may not be reached and the seller will be forced to relist the item and risk a lower price. As I said earlier, it would be unreasonable to compel sellers to risk a lower price than they've already been offered.

Hence it's entirely acceptable for sellers to terminate auctions early - indeed it's often stated that the item is advertised elsewhere and the seller reserves the right to withdraw from auction.

What's NOT acceptable however is the deliberate subversion of ebay auctions by phone bidding. Phone numbers are provided for further information, not as an invitation to make phone bids. Such bids not only usurp genuine bidders, they also put the seller in an invidious position. Therefore it behoves anyone seeking information by phone to REFRAIN from making phone bids. The fact that in this case it was a combined bid for two auctions is no excuse whatsoever.

In the interests of stamping out the practice of phone bidding I'm happy to name and shame the individual concerned - one [name deleted]. I'm led to believe he's a member of the MV community, which makes it even more galling. If anyone here knows this character they might like to inform him of our displeasure at being backdoored in this fashion.

In addition, since it was the actions of [name deleted] which deprived us of knowledge of the sale price of these two vehicles, I feel free to divulge it here - [price deleted] for the pair. You can make up your own mind about that.

Others here may not share my indignation in this instance, however I make no apology for my comments. The practice of phone bidding is potentially contagious, and it's hardly conducive to good relations within the MV community.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Yes, the seller only gets what the SECOND HIGHEST bidder is willing to pay (plus an insignificant increment). As opposed to a normal auction (house auction, disposal auction, clearing sale, etc.) where the seller gets what the HIGHEST bidder is willing to pay. There's often a big difference on ebay - I'm sure we've all bought items for considerably less than our maximum bid.

Obviously when someone makes an phone offer he'll have to pay what he offers, but the fact remains he's at a huge advantage over ebay bidders, because he's the only one conveying his maximum bid to the seller. In practice the seller has no idea what ebay bidders are willing to pay until the final few minutes/seconds of the auction. The strong temptation therefore is to accept the phone offer - a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Tony,

I am not sure what your point is? Ebay's maximum bid is like setting a (mental) threshold for oneself. In a real live auction I think one sets his/her maximum and bids in the auctions increments, and not by bidding the maxumum amount one is willing to pay? If you are willing to pay say $1,000 for an item, and bidding starts at 250 going up 50 at each bid, you are not standing up and shout "$1,000!" when the bidding halts at $750?

As for phone bids: as you say, a seller on ebay is entitled to withdraw before the end of the sale. So it is not a phone bid during a real live auction, but simply a seller withdrawing his item from the auction. Because he has second thoughts, or because he has sold it via another channel.

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

In the interests of stamping out the practice of phone bidding I'm happy to name and shame the individual concerned

I don't think it is up to you to name and shame an individual because you think the practice is wrong - at least not on this forum. I have therefore edited your original posting deleting the name and price. E-mail me if you wish to discuss this further. Thank you.

Regards,
Hanno
MLU Administrator & Moderator