C8A HUA sign and markings

Cschibsted · #1 03-11-12, 00:04

hallo mlu forum !
This is my first go on this forum. I'm from Norway, and have been playing with CMP's since beginning of the 80's. In my garage there is a C60L ......a C60S Breakdown Gar Wood equipped and this C8A HUA. All in nice original running condition exept of this HUA. (1C3 body)
I wonder if all of you out there can help me with any information about this HUA.
This HUA served as a fire truck in Norway from 1948 to 1980. I have found its original markings under several layers of red and green paint.
I was told from people using it in the 50's that it had served in north Africa, because they found a driving logg in it.
Its made 15.sept 1943, mill. nr CA 4236618 and CMD 19233, I altso found the rest of a unit sign on the front ...77 ?
Do any of you know anything about these markings ? I'm starting a total restauration of it and find the markings very interesting !!

chris vickery · #2 03-11-12, 00:29

As far as I know, Canada did not operate in N.Africa, at least not on a regimental scale. I believe we had Canadians there assigned to British units.
The white Invasion Star was used on vehicles used in the Normandy landings, hence post June 6, 1944.
Priot to this, the British used the RAF roundel on the upper surfaces of vehs (top) as identifiers. I have seen this on Italian and N. Africa campaign vehs.

Alex van de Wetering · #3 03-11-12, 16:32

C(?), welcome to the forum. Very nice to see a rare HUA appearing on the forum. I do'n't think there are too many surviving HUA's around...in fact the only other I know of, is Nick Bullock's truck in the UK.

To me it does sound somewhat strange that the former owners state that the this green 1943 Canadian registered HUA saw service in N-Africa. Maybe post-war service in North Africa? Or service in Italy rather than N-africa?

Please keep us updated on your progress with your truck(s)!

Alex

cletrac (RIP) · #4 03-11-12, 17:24

Canada operated a hospital in North Africa during the Italian operations. My cousin was sent there after getting wounded after the Cassino battle in 1944. They must have had ambulances around there.

chris vickery · #5 03-11-12, 17:43

While it is possible, the truck wearing an Allied Invasion Star being in N.Africa is highly unlikely.
According to official orders, the Invasion Star was painted on Allied vehicles just prior to the Normany invasion, seeing use in NW Europe. The Allied forces were also quick to paint ver these on the continent after the invasion as they made great targets for German panzers.
I do not think I have seen period pics of vehicles in Italy wearing these stars not N Africa for that matter.
American vehicles in N Africa did have the star on them but I have a hard time believing a HUA would be assigned there, especially wearing a US star.
The "77" denotes 9, 18 or 23 Field Ambulance of either 1st, 2nd or 3rd canadian Infantry Divisions respectively. The "77" should be painted over a black background.
Also there should be a divisonal sign opposite the "77". This would help identify which division it belonged to.
You may also find marking prefixed with a "H" to identify which truck out of the unit this was. Typically H1, H2 etc. It should appear on the doors someplace.
If I recall correctly (tell me if I am wrong) the 1st Canadian Infantry division was in the italian campaign during the Normandy invasion. The second and third landed at Normandy, so coupled up
with the Invasion star I think that you should find Divisional markings for one of these. I would suggest in all likelyhood, probably 18 or 23 Canadian Field Ambulance.
Your divisional marking would probably be a maple leaf on blue or grey background.

Cschibsted · #6 03-11-12, 19:55

Thanks for interesting answers. I'll try to remove more of the paint carefully later. You can baybe see that these markings are painted over the canadian brown colour. The dark green colour, cover it all . Maybe overpainted after the war.
Here are the roof- markings

chris vickery · #7 04-11-12, 00:46

By the roof markings (Allied Stars), I would definately lean towards this vehicle being used in NW Europe after D-Day.

Cschibsted · #8 08-04-18, 20:38

Hello out there !
Have I taken wrong about the sign "77" ? Baybe it is painted 75 on front shell.
Look on rear diff....... ! Anyone who knows something about this marking ?
Thanks
Christian

Alan McGuinness · #9 08-04-18, 22:25

For some inspiration, you may be interested in this well know photograph: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205205808

Best of luck with the project.

Ian McCallum · #10 13-04-18, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cschibsted

Hello out there !
Have I taken wrong about the sign "77" ? Baybe it is painted 75 on front shell.
Look on rear diff....... ! Anyone who knows something about this marking ?
Thanks
Christian

Hi Christian,

I would agree with previous comments in that due to the allied stars it is unlikely it served in Italy or North Africa during the war. Which really only leaves three alternatives.:

'77' as an arm of service (AoS) number, white on black, is common to all three Infantry Divisions as a Field Ambulance Unit.

1 Div. - 77 = 9 Can. Field Ambulance
2 Div. - 77 = 18 Can. Field Ambulance
3 Div. - 77 = 23 Can. Field Ambulance

Now it appears however that the number on the diff. is '75'? It was common practice to paint the AoS number on the diff so when illuminated by the convoy light it was known what vehicle organisation was being followed.
So did the vehicle transfer between units at some time?

As with the '77' the '75' was also used by all of the three Divisions to denote a field ambulance unit.

1 Div. - 75 = 4 Can. Field Ambulance
2 Div. - 75 = 10 Can. Field Ambulance
3 Div. - 75 = 14 Can. Field Ambulance

However, 1 Infantry Division did not arrive in Europe until 1945, so although possible allied stars were not always painted on vehicles so late in the war.

2 Infantry Division was a gold Maple Leaf on Blue, and 3 Infantry Division on Grey so have a look on the opposite side of nose. Also try the top corners on the rear or lower corners of the door.

I attach a photo of a HUA I once owned, now with Nick Bullock.

Larry Hayward · #11 14-04-18, 00:18

It could be that this vehicle received a replacement rear axle with 75 on it as in most parts of the NW European front, there were Army scrap yards that recovered useful bits from damaged vehicles. In my opinion this is more likely than the front end of the vehicle being changed and 75 being the existing unit

As for the colour originally your vehicle might have received a paint scheme of SCC.2 Brown (or the Canadian equivalent). Other vehicle types painted SCC.2 were camouflaged with Black or Dark Brown over the SCC.2. Ambulances don't seem to have been camouflaged very often. This scheme ended in September 1943, probably just after your HUA was built!

The new scheme was British SC.15 Olive Drab which was used as the new colour from the factory, and when repaired older vehicles were repainted in SC.15 especially post D-Day in 1944-45. So your vehicle may have green paint for this reason. Are the Stars painted over Brown or the Green?

I hope this helps

Ian McCallum · #12 14-04-18, 09:10

Forgot to say the HUA that I restored was your one's older brother or sister. Date of delivery was September 14th. 1943 as part of Order No.: LV1512.

Cschibsted · #13 15-04-18, 01:23

Thank you for your answers so far ! I will take your hints and study the body of the amb. some more.
Do you know if its possible to get blueprints or photo of the rear original inside the amb.? all original equipment is no longer there.

Cschibsted · #14 17-04-18, 16:32

Have studied the body and doors on my HUA........ The stars on rear side doors are painted on the canadian brown color. Then its a green olive color painted very nice around the white markings . Then it seems that the hole body was overpainted whith another green color. Maybe before shipped as a part of the Marshall help to Norway.
I know that the HUA came to Oslo harbor in 1948. It was bought out of Oslo by a Car dealer and then sold later to a little Norwegian community for serving as a firetruck, until about 1980.
I am very greatful for all help I can get.....!