m35a2

Speedy · #1 26-04-12, 02:00

I have always been curious and maybe someone can shed some light.
now I dont plan on owning one anytime soon, but it was one of the vehicles that introduced me into the hobby years ago.

I understand to get a m35a2 from govliquidation website in the states you need to be a resident, I have family so no worries on that.

but what would be involved in getting it across the border?
and registered for the road?
and what class license would you need?

if you dont feel like giving a whole write up (because I am not really looking to buy one, as I dont think its affordable to me

) but its been wrecking my brain for years

I do see on kijiji that some groups are importing them for a very high resell value on some.

I heard of our mlvw but supposedly marked as salvage non titled.

hope you all dont mind me asking

chris vickery · #2 26-04-12, 05:33

Speedy, a few of these available right here in ON now for sale at $6500...
No need to cross borders.
There are piles of them available in the US for decent money, buyer beware from gov sales. Many guys are dealing down south and they come ready checked out although command a higher price for this service. Lots available in private hands down there as well.
If buying from a gov auction you require a SF97 which is gov release documentation so you can import and apply here for an ownership. The US Gov does not provide ownerships.
To get across the border you require the SF97, bill of sale and need to drop these items off at the border crossing (US Customs) where you will be coming across 72 hours prior to arrival. They will want to inspect the veh when you cross to confirm the serial number etc. They will stamp your papers to leave the USA when they are satisfied. You will report to CBSA on the Canadian side. They will look at your documents, bill of sale etc and your truck to re-confirm serial etc. You will be assessed the HST, payable there.
Done. You will go to the MTO and have an ownership made up, providing the documents that you imported it with. For the time being, you can get an "unfit" ownership until you get the vehicle safetied and E-tested. Because it is overweight it ends up in a different class than say your pickup and will be subject to e-testing because it is diesel.
You can drive on a class G, I believe but this is coming under scrutiny from the MTO as the truck is air over hydraulic and falls into the same weight class as a commercial truck. Since it is a privately owned historic vehicle, I think they turn a blind eye to it although any MTO inspector could be your worst nightmare. I drove mine frequently but I am also classed with an AZ license so I never worried about things to much as far as licensing issue.
Chris

Speedy · #3 26-04-12, 05:57

thank you Chris! cleared up allot.
after reading that it makes it sound like buying on in canada is much easier and saves allot of hassle and time.
I didnt think the class G would allow to drive one, if you hauled with it and the gross vehicle weight would come into affect?

Grant Bowker · #4 26-04-12, 12:33

Since you are in Ontario - here is the MTO listing of what licence is allowed to drive what type vehicle.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dan.../classes.shtml
The older M135 CDN weighed about 13000 pounds empty so a G was enough if you kept the load reasonable. As I read it, you need the Z endorsement to operate a vehicle with air over hydraulic brakes but the GZ combination is allowed. Z endorsement can be earned in a weekend at community colleges, fairly easy to do.

A new (and in my opinion silly) wrinkle seems to have been introduced in July last year. A pickup may now tow a 5th wheel RV of over 4600 kg provided that the combined gross weight is below 11000 kg (and a couple more limitations). OK, but now for the silly part, if the trailer is anything except an RV the trailer is limited to 4600 kg. Same truck, same hitch, same driver, possibly safer in crosswinds due to less side area than an RV but different allowed trailer weight. Clear discrimination against CMP haulers. I don't make, enforce or fully understand the rules but I try to live within them and hate to see goofy rules introduced to silence lobby groups without thought to the implications. In case you are wondering I don't see how a M35 can be fit to the pickup definition (3 axles).

When in doubt, go to the rule book and read it. That way you have the same source that the police might use to charge you.... and remember to review it every so often because the rules can change (in either direction) as noted in the paragraph above

chris vickery · #5 29-04-12, 20:30

For anyone considering a "deuce" type vehicle, I suggest that a M35A2 is your best option out there. Kinda crazy that we can go to the USA and buy one of these to drive on the road here but the CDN Gov't won't allow surplused MLVW to be registered. If you want a M35A2 to look like a Canadian MLVW just change up the wheels to super singles.
The multi-fuel turbo diesel is a great engine and there are plenty of parts available for these trucks. They will easily do 55mph although you need hearing protection, maybe a bit more if you crank up the governor.

maple_leaf_eh · #6 29-04-12, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris vickery

For anyone considering a "deuce" type vehicle, I suggest that a M35A2 is your best option out there. Kinda crazy that we can go to the USA and buy one of these to drive on the road here but the CDN Gov't won't allow surplused MLVW to be registered. If you want a M35A2 to look like a Canadian MLVW just change up the wheels to super singles.
The multi-fuel turbo diesel is a great engine and there are plenty of parts available for these trucks. They will easily do 55mph although you need hearing protection, maybe a bit more if you crank up the governor.

The US trucks are standard shift, have worse seats and a softop cab. The M35 series is 1950s technology. The MLVW is more 1980s, with a greater emphasis on driver comfort and energy.

Jon Skagfeld · #7 30-04-12, 01:15

Interesting input here, especially WRT the "deuce-and-a-half" type vehicles.

I have been driving, instructing and testing students on the MLVW since it was introduced c.1982, both in the military and, now, as a contract employee.

I don't have a Z endorsement on my provincial license, yet the official MTO air brake manual states that "You must have an air brake endorsement on your driver's licence to drive a vehicle with air-over-hydraulic brakes in Ontario". So it seems that the Z requirement was ignored in this case.

I do have the air brake certificate from the military, but that isn't recognized by the MTO, yet the $300.00 civilian course is recognized by the military.

On our own time, a few of us instructors started the MSVS conversion course, with air brake endorsement on my 404s. Part way through the course, with road time in already, we were told that without DZ on our civvie licence, we could not proceed. So here it seems that the Z requirement was enforced.

If you can muddle your way through all of the above, you'll perhaps realize why I'm asking a great big ... WTF?

Grant Bowker · #8 30-04-12, 02:16

As I understand it, you are allowed to drive DND vehicles on Ontario raods provided you have your 404 and the vehicle is of a type annotated on your 404, regardless of whether you have a civilian licence.
IF this is correct and IF your 404 is annotated for the MLVW, presumably you can drive the MLVW on Ontario roads regardless of the statement in the Air Brake Handbook.
It sounds to me as if you met someone who had read one paragraph of the rule book and failed to read the surrounding chapter(s). The phrase about a little knowledge being dangerous comes to mind.

XJSKINS · #9 30-04-12, 21:36

Chris, I was under the impression that as a private Canadian, you could not import a M35 from the US unless you went through a person/company that had an export license or something to that effect due to something about state department military equipment or some other non-sense.

Are you saying that if I had a brother-in-law that was a US resident that he could purchase from GL, I in turn could purchase from him and import as described above?

My apologies for the high jack, but I feel this pertains to the theme of the thread.

Cheers

Rick

Robin Craig · #10 01-05-12, 00:49

Gents,

I would like comment on some of your thoughts.

We have in the collection two Bedford MJ trucks. Very similar to a "deuce" except number of axles.

They are both air over hydraulic. Z endorsement is required. Dependant on whether empty or not is a grey area on the G vs D licence according to some, in my understanding empty is a G loaded is a D. Frankly I would say a D minimum.

As I hold an A Z I dont have an issue.

The trucks are heavy enough that they require plating under the commercial rating and hence need an annual safety and emmissions in perpetuity.

As the trucks are in that weight category they require be driven under the terms of a CVOR. One does not have to have a CVOR personally but a letter carried in the vehicle stating that the vehicle is leased to the CVOR holder and the vehicle is under their care and control. Having that letter lodged with MTO is a good idea also.

Hence my employer owns the trucks but his company has the CVOR and leases the trucks and they run under the company CVOR.

Each truck is required to be daily checked and a record kept, that is your driver trip inspection book. $390 fine for failure to do so. Period.

If you are looking for an M series truck the collection has a M109A3 for sale, POA.

R

captw · #11 01-05-12, 03:06

if you wish to purchase a former US military vehicle from Government Liquidations, or some vehicles sold by GSA, most will have an End User Certificate, which means only US citizens living in the USA, not relatives of USA residents, etc., can purchase these vehicles directly from the above sellers, and only after having applied for the EUC, and being granted one for each vehicle purchased, and then you pay again to get a SF-97(transfer of title form)....the only legal way for a foreign national(Canadian) to get one of these EUC marked vehicles is to buy one from a dealer authorized to sell internationally...in my point of view, strictly a cash grab all the way around...good luck!...W

rob love · #12 01-05-12, 03:13

The old duece, as well as the MLVW (and the US M35) only use the air as an assist. You will still have brakes despite the loss of air. That is why you do not need an air brake license to operate them. However, hook up the 1-1/2 ton trailer and you now need the air brake license. If you lose the air system, you will not have any braking on the trailers.

At least that's how I have always understood it.

Stan Leschert · #13 02-05-12, 07:42

If your DND 404s have the endorcement for MLVW, you may operate any Gov't owned ML. The second that you want to drive a privately owned rig, things get more complex, depending on province, and the pissiness of the Motor Vehicle Inspector, who has just pulled you over, and has no idea of how to properly vent his wrath upon you.

The best way to avoid problems, if you get one, is to get a Class 3 (BC. other provinces have different term for 3 axle ...) and an Air endorsement.

There are a few nice Multi Fuel M35A2 in your area, or contact a reputable dealer like Eastern Surpluss, that has an export liscence, and will sell you a good road ready truck.

The manuals for most trucks of that series are available for free download on steelsoldiers.com

Most private USA truck owners won't sell to you, just go to a proper dealer as noted above.

Read, learn, then decide which big green toy is either going to annoy the fellow next door, or is going to be the hit of the Remembrance Day Parade.