Matilda

[George Moore]

Another plea for assistance coming up !

Does anyone have some good photos of the Leyland engines fitted to the Matilda's.

I have a great set of photo's for the AEC, (thanks), but now need to see how the Leyland engines looked.

I have drawings from manuals, and the publicity shot from the manual, however the sides of the block are the unknowns.

A shot of the gearbox would also be very welcome, again I have drawings but need to "see" the shape.

Any help much appreciated.

George.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Not insitu, and not complete, but it may kick things off for you.
Rich.

[Lynn Eades]

Is it a Leyland 680 derivative? Maybe George you could look in that direction?

[matilda IIA]

Hi Guys

Please see attached details

Engines are 7.5 litre

As a general rule, Matilda I and II are fitted with twin AEC engines (A183 and A184). Matilda II* (IIa), III and IIICS are fitted with twin Leyland engines (E148 and E149 or E164 and E165). Matilda IV, IV CS and V are fitted with twin Leyland engines (E170 and E171).

All lower numbers are the left hand engine.

The Leyland engines are all the same bore and stroke however the mounting and layout of auxiliaries are different.

Early engines have aluminium sumps, later types have pressed steel sumps as it was found that when the floor was bulged up as a result of a mine blast the aluminium sumps fractured resulting in engine failure.

I have seen some engines with cast sumps but they are few anf far between.

Kind regards
Matt

[matilda IIA]

Please see below some side view details of the engines, stearing clutch and gearbox detail

Kind regards
Matt

[George Moore]

Thanks guys, just what I needed.

I should have mentioned that I was needing photos of the engine and gearbox "out" of the tank, these are just what I need to show the shape of the block etc.

One query, the oil tank is mounted on the "outside" of each block, I see one of the photos has it mounted so it would be between the blocks, is this just to show things part assembled?

The later engines are listed as "improved Leylands", these seemingly had the oil tank attached, plus other additions such as oil cooler tubes running across the gearbox end of the blocks, improved filters etc.
Wasn't aware of the sumps though, thanks for all the info.

The manual for some reason has sectioned drawings of the AEC engine, which are useful, but strange in that the sump on the drawings is totally different to that fitted on the tank engines. The most obvious difference between the AEC and Leyland (there are others of course), but at first glance, the Leyland has a much wider and flatter rocker cover. I did not realise that the rocker cover came apart either, thanks for that.

If there are other photos, please send them on.

These really help, and thank you all very much.

I cannot get the link to work (?) but should you wish to see some of the model work I have done, look at www.mooresmilitarymodels.co.uk

Thanks again.

George.

[matilda IIA]

Hi George

The early leyland engines have the oil tanks mounted on the hull between the brake rest and fuel tanks. (painted yellow in previous photo) They also have the oil coolers mounted above the fuel tanks to the upper hull. all conecting piping is copper pipe.

The E170/171 motors have the oil tank mouned on the starter motor perch bracket. and the oil coolers mounted on the timming case end of the engine pack. This allowed for a much larger fuel tank as can be seen in the above photos.

I will get you some more details tommorrow.

Kind regards
Matt

[George Moore]

Thanks,
I enclose a drawing of the Leyland engines, with some questions.

Hope it makes sense.

George.

[matilda IIA]

Hi George

The crankcase is interchangable between eiter side, please see attached several views of left and right side of the motors. The sides are tappered from the sump flange up to the cylinder block mounting flange.

Each engine component is cast with the day, month and year it was made. I find this remarkable as their was a war on while they were at this !

Kind regards
Matt

[Phil Waterman]

Been following this thread with interest and it wasn't until the pictures just posted that the size of the engine was put in perspective. Not until you stand the engine upright next to a person do size of these engines really come through. They are big.

Cheers Phil

[The Bedford Boys]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

They are big.

Understatement of today goes to Phil

[Mike K]

There was a Matilda on my uncle's farm at Lakes Entrance years ago..Dont know if its still there.. it was turretless and sinking into the ground MIKE

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Been following this thread with interest and it wasn't until the pictures just posted that the size of the engine was put in perspective. Not until you stand the engine upright next to a person do size of these engines really come through. They are big.

Cheers Phil

It's just a matter of perspective.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

There was a Matilda on my uncle's farm at Lakes Entrance years ago..Dont know if its still there.. it was turretless and sinking into the ground MIKE

Think it is still there Mike. Covered with blackberrys last time I saw it (a few years ago).

[George Moore]

Fantastic and again thanks for the info.
That has answered my queries.

It sure is a big 'un' though. Just enough power to move itself, let alone the tank.

Not unusual though to have the stampings, it was a Government contract, so everything had to be recorded and listed.

Thanks again for your help.

George

[matilda IIA]

Some photos of the AEC pack for comparison, in case you havent seen a real one.

Kind regards
Matt

[George Moore]

Thanks Matt,
I believe you had posted these before, which I admit to downloading, and started to prepare a set of scale (modelling drawings), coupled with a set of drawings from a modelling web-site.
Having researched the subject deeper, the available kits can be converted into the early or later Mk's of the tank, all that I had missing was the "shape" of the Leyland block, as your photo's showed the AEC profile exactly.

In conclusion, I now have two sets of drawings in progress, of both types.

The intention will be to make models in 1/35th scale, even though after all the effort, v/little of the engine will be seen once all the other gubbins are in place.

One more plea, if there are some other photos of the gearbox than those already sent, they too would be of great help.

I think I am correct in saying that the clutch end / drive casting for both types is similar ??

Thanks again guys, your help is of enormous value and having myself been involved in working on cars from my early days, I take my hat off to the work you do.

The enclosed: my first proper car, my latest project and a birthday present from my wife was a day out driving a selection of military vehicles, I could'nt get the Sultan in my garage anyway!!

Regards and thanks.

George.

[matilda IIA]

Hi

The cross drive is the same apart from the compressor drive on the aux drive.

The gearbox has 4 small legs although they dont touch the floor when mounted in the tank. The gerbox is a constant drive to both sides, they are made with two oil pumps, one is driven off the input shaft and the other is driven off one of the output shafts. (so oil is supplied when been towed).

Kind regards
Matt

[George Moore]

Thanks for those Matt,
The overall drawings from the manual give the basic shape, but not all the lumps and bumps.
These are excellent and just what I need.

The info on the oil feed pumps is interesting, and something I would not have thought about.
The transfer case, yes I see from the drawings that the compressor housing changes between different Mk's.

Now I have something to work from, especially the way the engine block breaks down to a lower case, mid section and heads, it all makes sense now.

Thanks for all the info, and your time.

George.