On a Normandy beach...

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Check out this photo, courtesy of Richard Notton...

[DaveCox]

Thank god the Luftwaffe stayed at home that day!!! all bunched up like that they'd be a 'jabo' pilots dream!

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Well, this pic is apparently dated 08 Jun 44... so the Luftwaffe was very definitely in business at the time!

I'll let part of Richard's email speak on the subject pic. BTW, they found this in search of archival material ref Dave Ballard's magnificent Polsten Ford:


Photo comes from page 139 of THE ARMED FORCES OF CANADA 1867-1967 by Goodspeed.
Publ. 1967.

As you might imagine we have spent hours over this photo with a strong glass,
however, it is a pixelated print and we cannot find the original which would
reveal more data. We have contacted the Canadian museum and archive sources but
they will not search their data, although we could if we made an appointment and
came over. I do get the impression that the whole WWII Canadian records are
fragmented between several organisations and stored, unindexed, in several dark
basements; therefore people asking to do research are a pain in the arse.

You can see drivers bent down in the passenger door and that awkward engine
cover on the sand, we think they are de-wading the trucks before moving inland.

This would appear to be Juno Beach on the 8th of June 1944, so they did go over
even though most sources say otherwise.

The markings are readily deducible from the picture and Dave has faithfully
reproduced these. The shield and sword carried on the LHS ammo locker is 2nd
Army. Then we have the stag's head for 22nd Armoured Brigade and the horizontal
red/blue of 7th Armoured Division. Over that in a rare bit of dual marking is
the "73" of the 15th Light Ack-Ack regiment within 7th Armoured.

Of course these units were ex Monty's Desert Rats so this is carried also and
you can see that space is sorely limited on this type of truck to paint all this
on but we have achieved it as per the photo.

What is still puzzling but we have made an informed guess is that white square.
We think this was the shipping data, a standard stencil applied to everything
that allowed the dimensions and weight to be chalked-up in a standardised table,
these are to be seen in detail everywhere and easily duplicated. This we have
made a stencil for and applied to the battery box, since door space with the Z
number and Canadian transfer is limited, rather than chalking the actual data
Dave has painted it free-hand as a more durable representation of the chalked
data.

Wow... a frustration to think of all those unseen photos hidden away. What would it take to get them sorted, indexed, and to have them accessible for viewing???:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Check out this photo, courtesy of Richard Notton...

Seen it before, great picture with lots of interesting stuff to see. Of course the rare sight of the F15's with 20 mm Polsten guns, but also have a look at the Otter towing a trailer (but what type?) and the Sherman BARV near the water.

But now for the first time I noticed the Humber 4x4's (leading and following the Chevrolet C8 HU): don't they look an awful lot like the one in the pic below?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
But now for the first time I noticed the Humber 4x4's (leading and following the Chevrovlet C8 HU): don't they look an awful lot like the one in the pic below?

Hanno,
They are Morris Commercial C4 (or possibly late build CS8) with what looks like the Light Warning body. Note the fuel tank under the door, the Humber 4x4 does not have that.

Richard

[Steve Guthrie]

Hi there

One of the Canadian loading tables for D-Day mentions the use 'Trailers, Jahn'.
Jahn was one of the manufacturers of the standard US Army 1-ton trailer.

That's what that the Otter appears to be towing.

Steve

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
They are Morris Commercial C4 (or possibly late build CS8) with what looks like the Light Warning body. Note the fuel tank under the door, the Humber 4x4 does not have that.

Richard, thanks for setting me straight. I think I was too pre-occupied trying to determine what type of Humber FWD it is in the picture I attached. Seems it is fitted with the same body as on those Morris-Commercials, but I cannot find a reference to Humber manufacturing any FWDs chassis with this body. A genuine Army modification or a post-war mix-'n-match?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Steve Guthrie
One of the Canadian loading tables for D-Day mentions the use 'Trailers, Jahn'.
Jahn was one of the manufacturers of the standard US Army 1-ton trailer.

Hi Steve,

I was going to type "Ben Hur trailer", but decided to put it down as a question.

Was the "Trailer, Jahn" US or Canadian built?

Hanno

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Seems it is fitted with the same body as on those Morris-Commercials, but I cannot find a reference to Humber manufacturing any FWDs chassis with this body. A genuine Army modification or a post-war mix-'n-match?

Hanno,
I do not think the body on the Humber in the photo is the same as fitted on the MCC C4 or CS8. It looks narrower. The BBC had some of the Humber 4x4 as recording vans and I recollect seeing a photo of one somewhere (maybe in W&T). It is definitely not an ambulance as that had double doors at the rear.

Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
I do not think the body on the Humber in the photo is the same as fitted on the MCC C4 or CS8. It looks narrower. The BBC had some of the Humber 4x4 as recording vans and I recollect seeing a photo of one somewhere (maybe in W&T). It is definitely not an ambulance as that had double doors at the rear.

Richard, see BBC War Reporting Equipment 1944/5 - Recording Trucks for some pictures of the BBC recording vans. These were converted ambulances, with double rear doors indeed. But it is an an entirely different body style (compare with pic below).

Apparently the Humber in question is some sort of cobbled-up vehicle, the question is whether it is a 'genuine' (war-time) modification to fit some military purpose, or not.

Hanno

[Alex van de Wetering]

I just stumbled upon this "old" thread and thought it was well worth putting it back on top again.

What a terrific picture!

Looks like Morris Commercials C4 Wireless House Type Mk2 to me.

Geoff, did you try the Imperial War Museum? They have lots of pictures and just maybe......

It's a pity that not much can be seen of the scenery, so it will be hard to find the exact location when I am in Normandy for my holiday.


Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Guys,

I have just returned from my holiday in Normandy. I tried to make a "then and now" picture of the picture on top of this tread. I took the picture in Courseulles sur mer, next to the new Juno beach museum (which I decided not to vivit because of the bad reviews).

Alex van de Wetering

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Alex van de Wetering
I tried to make a "then and now" picture of the picture on top of this tread. I took the picture in Courseulles sur mer, next to the new Juno beach museum

Hmm, that could be the spot Alex - well done! Next time we'll get Dave to park his F15 Polsten AA truck on that beach.

Originally posted by DaveCox
Thank god the Luftwaffe stayed at home that day!!! all bunched up like that they'd be a 'jabo' pilots dream!

Wot!!!?

Wiv all them F15 Polstens at the dip, I think not.

R.

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Hmm, that could be the spot Alex - well done! Next time we'll get Dave to park his F15 Polsten AA truck on that beach.

We are immensely grateful to Alex for the "then and now" images, and Hanno for combining them in one posting.

Whenever Ballard gets back to France if we can access this beach with a vehicle, by whatever means of cajoling and argument, then we will "duplicate" the picture.

In fact DB is quite fired up to do so and perhaps we can take multiple images using the original as a placement reference which someone with a cute photo program can perhaps create a montage and replicate the line of F15 Polstens.

Even though Ballard will whinge mightily, we'll have him correctly lean in the cab as appropriate as can be seen and also fling that awkward engine cover onto the sand as can be seen too.

Currently it has come to our attention that the 15th LAA who operated these trucks is an IOM regiment and is correctly titled "15th (Isle of Man) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment"; trawling around the net we have quite an amount of reference now including the official history of the regiment and the contact for the IOM military archives. According to their web site, it seems the IOM authorities are very helpful to researchers.

I have here a sheaf of papers taken from the net, duly printed with Ballard's free-issue printer cartridges which he has donated to The Signals Clerk in recognition of the years of previous free-issue printed data emanating from the Shirrell Heath Signals Office.

We shall be following the leads so generated and anything of interest that comes to light will definitely get recorded here.

All the best,

R.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Hmm, that could be the spot Alex - well done! Next time we'll get Dave to park his F15 Polsten AA truck on that beach.

Does anyone know the source of this picture? It does appear on a number of websites, but I am hoping it can be found in one of the online archives that allows zooming in....
I think I see a C60X Stores or Machinery truck in the line of trucks, and I would love to have a closer look at it.