Ww2 jeep trailer

Little Jo · #1 16-09-11, 05:29

Hi all

I now have my purchased WW2 Jeep trailer at home and I have started to do some work on her. I know it is an Australian Trailer as it has the square mudguards on it. Can any one help me with my restoration regarding the following:

1. Looking at photograph one of the trailer. Are there any obvious missing items on the trailer I need to be looking for.

2. On photograph two. I started to rub down and found the following number on the draw bar. Is this the serial number and if it is am I able to find out any history details regarding the number.

I propose painting the trailer in the same desert colours as my 1942 MB Jeep and will include the same TAC Plates on the rear of the trailer as on the Jeep.

Cheers

Tony

Mike Cecil · #2 19-09-11, 19:33

Tony,

Your trailer is a 'Trailer, 8 Cwt, GS, (Aust) No.4' (or is it No.4 (Aust) ... I don't remember and am away from the office so cannot check just now). This was the last design of the Australian 'jeep' trailers built in Australia, and is easily recognisable by the high-mounted mudguards (the earlier No.3 trailer had the guards mounted up to the chine (change in angle) of the tub).

There should be a cast nomenclature plate on the rear, low down, which will indicate the manufacturer, type, and have a stamping with either the registartion number or manufacturer's number (depends on which company built it), but this is apparently missing from your, judging by the question you posted.

The 5 digit number shown in your image was not an allocated Aust Army registration number: it fits within the sequence, but the records show a set of numbers, including yours, that were not allocated and left blank in the register. Most No.4 trailers had 6 digit registration numbers beginning with '1', unless it was a trailer allocated to the RAAF, in which case the 6 digit number would begin with '2'.

There are plenty of nicely restored examples about, so you should have no trouble finding out details for your restoration.

Nice looking example, BTW.

Mike C

Mike Cecil · #3 19-09-11, 20:04

Tony,

I've checked and its 'Trailer, 2 wheel, 8 cwt, (Aust) No.4'. I'm also pretty sure the hand book included 'GS' in the nomenclature as well.

A couple of points: your image shows a flat plate and bracket inside the right hand front drawbar: this is for holding the 'spacer' insert for the towing eye when not in use. The towing eye on the No.4 was large enough to fit the pintle hook on CMPs and USMP vehicles, so to reduce the ring size for the jeep pintle hook, an insert spacer, consisting of an upper and lower half, bolted together, was inserted in to the towing ring. When not in use, the same connecting bolt was screwed into the hole in the flat plate shwon in your image, with the 'u' of the spacer against the short bracket visible on the flat plate, above the bolt hole.

The towing ring had a spring and collar arrangement, and was mounted within the draw bar (ie between the arms of the drawbar), rather than above it as on the No.3 and 3A trailer.

The original wheels for the No.4 trailer were Australian manufactured wheels, not two-piece 'jeep' wheels. Stud pattern was the same. Axle was tubular.

Mike C

Little Jo · #4 20-09-11, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Tony,

I've checked and its 'Trailer, 2 wheel, 8 cwt, (Aust) No.4'. I'm also pretty sure the hand book included 'GS' in the nomenclature as well.

A couple of points: your image shows a flat plate and bracket inside the right hand front drawbar: this is for holding the 'spacer' insert for the towing eye when not in use. The towing eye on the No.4 was large enough to fit the pintle hook on CMPs and USMP vehicles, so to reduce the ring size for the jeep pintle hook, an insert spacer, consisting of an upper and lower half, bolted together, was inserted in to the towing ring. When not in use, the same connecting bolt was screwed into the hole in the flat plate shwon in your image, with the 'u' of the spacer against the short bracket visible on the flat plate, above the bolt hole.

The towing ring had a spring and collar arrangement, and was mounted within the draw bar (ie between the arms of the drawbar), rather than above it as on the No.3 and 3A trailer.

The original wheels for the No.4 trailer were Australian manufactured wheels, not two-piece 'jeep' wheels. Stud pattern was the same. Axle was tubular.

Mike C

Mike

Thank you for the updated information. Yes I am very happy with the trailer, it is in fantastic condition. I propose bringing it back to the original standard when it left the factory. It still has the cast nomenclature plate on the rear (see attached photo). The plate shows it as a Ford built No 4 trailer, however I can not find a number on the plate. I am now confused with the number 86586 on the draw bar. I also noted different colours of paint as I started to rub it back. I appreciate you finding time to bring me up to date.

Cheers

Tony

Mike K · #5 20-09-11, 10:21

Tony ,

It's a rare happening , but Jeep trailers have been known to flip over . A club member here was on his way to Corowa years ago, as he approached the crest of Mt Slide, up on the Melba Hwy, the trailer suddenly flipped over.. all of his camping gear was spread out on the road verge .

I witnessed it also. I was following a Jeep up to Barooga years ago and the trailer , without any warning, jumped up and almpost went over . The road was perfect , about 40mph speed. We stopped and checked it but nothing was found . It didn't do it again .

The pintle, I believe, can rotate 360 degrees ....

Mike

Local Chap · #6 20-09-11, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Jo

Hi all

I propose painting the trailer in the same desert colours as my 1942 MB Jeep.

Cheers

Anthony (Tony) VAN RHODA
1942 MB Willys Jeep Restored
1942 Australian No. 4 Jeep Trailer

The plate on the trailer clearly shows a build date of 1945. The No4 trailers were far too late in the scheme of things to see service in North Africa, and I don't believe any of them were ever painted in Desert Colours. It would look nice to have a matching trailer and Jeep, but hardly an authentic restoration for 1945. I would just get rid of the star and leave it Green.

Little Jo · #7 20-09-11, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local Chap

The plate on the trailer clearly shows a build date of 1945. The No4 trailers were far too late in the scheme of things to see service in North Africa, and I don't believe any of them were ever painted in Desert Colours. It would look nice to have a matching trailer and Jeep, but hardly an authentic restoration for 1945. I would just get rid of the star and leave it Green.

Hi Local Chap

You are correct, 1945 was to late for the Desert Campaign. Food for thought.

Cheers

Tony

Mike Cecil · #8 20-09-11, 17:55

Tony,

I can just see, from your image, the stamped serial number adjacent to the 'FMC' cast letters. Being a Ford, the serial may be something like 'JTXX', the last two being numerals. It seems to end in '2', but if you clear the paint off, it should become clearer. GMH appear to have stamped the actual ARN onto their plate, but Ford used their own production serial. 'JT' stands for 'Jeep Trailer', by the way!

The comment about desert yellow is right: far toooo late for an authentic restoration, but it's your trailer.

Mike C

Little Jo · #9 21-09-11, 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Tony,

I can just see, from your image, the stamped serial number adjacent to the 'FMC' cast letters. Being a Ford, the serial may be something like 'JTXX', the last two being numerals. It seems to end in '2', but if you clear the paint off, it should become clearer. GMH appear to have stamped the actual ARN onto their plate, but Ford used their own production serial. 'JT' stands for 'Jeep Trailer', by the way!

The comment about desert yellow is right: far toooo late for an authentic restoration, but it's your trailer.

Mike C

Hi Mike

Thanks for the information. I will start cleaning the plate and use the old magnifying glass to see what was stamped there.

Cheers

Tony

Ryan · #10 21-09-11, 02:36

Tony, it seems you have a problem.
If you leave it green you will please others but be unhappy yourself.
If you paint it desert colour you will please yourself but make others unhappy.

Solution...

Paint it pink with flowers then everyone will be in agreement......that it's bloody terrible!

Mike Cecil · #11 21-09-11, 02:55

Tony,

Mike K wrote (BTW, G'day Mike!) that the original pintle could rotate 360 degrees. I think that may be incorrect, as I had a replacement pintle eye some years ago, and it had two short 'ears' underneath that engaged a short stub plate under the draw bar that allowed the ring to rotate only about 45-60 degrees to each side from horizontal.

When you have the serial number, post it to this thread and I'll see if I can find the ARN.

Mike C

Robert Farmer · #12 21-09-11, 03:45

The numbers on the draw bar look to me like someone in recent times has stamped them on with a centre punch, maybe to satisfy modern rego laws with a chassis number.
Robert.

Little Jo · #13 21-09-11, 07:58

Hi Guys

Now I am complety confused.

Robert, you are most probably correct as I can not find any details anywhere suggesting a serial number was stamped on the draw bar. The numbers do look like they were put on using a punch.

Mike. I have cleaned up the plate and I can just make out some numbers. (See attached photo). At first I thought it was "1712" but then it could be "JT12" it is hard to see, you wouldn't believe it there is a dent right in the corner where the number is stamped.

Ryan. You are right mate it's bloody hard to please everyone. I put painting it pink with flowers to my wife and she said that was a good idea, I could then put it in the garden and she would use it as a planter and plant daisys and bulbs in it. I said "Over my dead body".. I think I will keep the colour I paint it a secret for the time being.

Cheers

Tony

Richard Coutts-Smith · #14 21-09-11, 09:38

Re the rotating Pintle Hook.
My understanding is that either the ring or the hook was supposed to be able to rotate, but not both, as this could lead to jamming when turning sharply. Thus a rotating Pintle Hook was able to be locked into a fixed position.
Tony, paint the trailer how you wish, one in a thousand may pick it as not right, but you will be happy, and thats what it's all about!
Rich.

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #15 21-09-11, 12:56

Hi Tony - here is the new colour scheme.

Bob

Little Jo · #16 21-09-11, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Hi Tony - here is the new colour scheme.

Bob

Good one Bob.

I think you have solved the problem. I could always throw a camo net over it.

Cheers

Tony

Mike Cecil · #17 21-09-11, 17:25

Tony,

Yep, always the way! And the numbers were always awkward to stamp in that space anyway, hence some 'miss-hits'.

I'll check both numbers against the FMC 8cwt trailers I have listed and get back to you next week.

Mike C

Little Jo · #18 22-09-11, 02:00

Hi Richard - Mike

Richard. You are right of course, at the end of the day it is still me that will have to be happy and Mr General Public will not know anyway.

Mike. I really appreciate you spending time to assist me. That is what I have come to enjoy being a member of MLU. I hope you have a great day on the river.

Once I have finalised the trailer restoration and the final choice of painting I will place a photo of the finished project on the thread. So watch this space.

Cheers

Tony

Richard Coutts-Smith · #19 22-09-11, 09:15

Tony, you may or may not know, but there is a Jeep Trailer Register started by fellow MLUer Ian Fawbert:

http://www.vintageengines.net/page15.htm

Rich.

Little Jo · #20 22-09-11, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

Tony, you may or may not know, but there is a Jeep Trailer Register started by fellow MLUer Ian Fawbert:

http://www.vintageengines.net/page15.htm

Rich.

Rich. Thanks for the site. I checked the site and noted the person I obtained the trailer from is listed but no numbers are shown, so I guess I will put it in my name and fill in the missing gaps.

Cheers mate

Tony

Mike Cecil · #21 26-09-11, 19:13

Tony,

Back in the office and done some checking: The chassis numbering of the Ford-manufactured No.4 trailers was a straight number sequence, so the number you gave - 1712 - does conform to a Ford No.4 chassis number, while 'JT12' conforms to the Ford numbering system for their No.3 and 3A trailer manufacture. Sorry to have confused things earlier.

Anyway, checked the number '1712' and found it in my trailer notes. It had the ARN 166778. It was disposed of in the immediate post-WW2 period, so you are very lucky to have found it in such great condition.

As to paint colour, it would have originally been delivered in the standard Khaki Green No.3 (second version), so to be authentic, that's the colour to use, along with the ARN in white numerals, 3 to 3.5 inches high, with the width of the lines making up the numerals all 1/2 inch wide. But as I said earlier, it's your trailer & your choice. We await news (at completion) of your final choice.

Regards

Mike C

Little Jo · #22 27-09-11, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Tony,

Back in the office and done some checking: The chassis numbering of the Ford-manufactured No.4 trailers was a straight number sequence, so the number you gave - 1712 - does conform to a Ford No.4 chassis number, while 'JT12' conforms to the Ford numbering system for their No.3 and 3A trailer manufacture. Sorry to have confused things earlier.

Anyway, checked the number '1712' and found it in my trailer notes. It had the ARN 166778. It was disposed of in the immediate post-WW2 period, so you are very lucky to have found it in such great condition.

As to paint colour, it would have originally been delivered in the standard Khaki Green No.3 (second version), so to be authentic, that's the colour to use, along with the ARN in white numerals, 3 to 3.5 inches high, with the width of the lines making up the numerals all 1/2 inch wide. But as I said earlier, it's your trailer & your choice. We await news (at completion) of your final choice.

Regards

Mike C

Hi Mike

Thanks for the very in interesting information. I am very appreciative that you found time to conduct your search of my Ford No' 4 trailer. The information gives my trailer a history that I will now use to update my records. Thank you again for doing this so soon after your Yellowstone holiday. I hope I can meet you in the future for a chat.

Cheers Tony