Argyll Roger - a true enigma?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Attached is a picture postcard dated ca. 1962 (scan provided by a Marco Hogenkamp) showing Argyll Roger on display at Doorwerth Castle.

Sherman-Oosterbeek_resized.jpg

[kevinT]

Although I cannot add anymore to these post one thing that does strike me as odd is the placement of the name itself.

Names are generally on the transmission, turret, front of driver gunner / driver housing or on or above the forward applique armour patch. It seems very far back to me.
Just an observation.

Cheers
Kevin

[Alex van de Wetering]

The Airborne museum recently published an old picture of the Sherman in their news section, which shows the tank on display at the Doorwerth castle.


source: www.airbornemuseum.nl

Sadly the picture is slightly damaged on top of the Tank's name..... "ARG...GER". It does look like the tank hasn't been repainted in the picture yet....you still see remains of the US stencil "ANTI FREEZE....) close to the Census number.

I agree that it is not very likely that it was a Vc converted back to a V....Yes, you could replace the gun with a 75mm (one of us has even done this recently ), but what about the radio box at the rear of the turret and the square hatch? Fit a different turret would solve this, but than you still have the extra armor in front of the bow .30 position and the travel support for the gun.....and different hull interior layout. A number of Shermans on display in Belgium are actuallu Vc's made to look like American M4A4's, but in all cases evidence remains of their true identity....

Alex

hans_mulder_sherman.jpg

[tankbarrell]

Nice picture. I agree, that tank has never been a VC. BTW the anti-freeze stencil is a British add on.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

All,

Thanks for your input. There is no doubt this Sherman V was never converted into a Firefly, and therefore could not have been "Argyle", which was a Sherman VC Firefly of the Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) it currently depicts.

I am hoping one day someone will recognise the meaning of "Argyll Roger" so we can trace it back to a unit which used this Sherman. Kevin's remark about the placement of the name may help in identifying certain regiments which adopted this practice?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

In 1949, when the Airborne Museum was established in Kasteel Doorwerth, the Sherman was moved there. But in 1978, when the Airborne Museum moved to Hotel Hartenstein, the Sherman was moved back to where it was found in 1945.

Here is another picture of Argyll Roger at Doorwerth Castle. This is where the first airborne museum was housed. Date: 26-03-1977

477-0014.jpg
Source: Gelders archief


And here is being transported to back to Hartenstein hotel at Utrechtseweg, Oosterbeek, after the Airborne Museum moved there. Date: 26-03-1977

477-0015.jpg
Source: Gelders archief

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another set of pictures of Argyll Roger. Note the two battle damaged 17-pdr guns. These picture were taken at Doorwerth Castle.

Both the Sherman V and the guns can now be seen at the Airborne Museum in Oosterbeek, The Netherlands.

beeldbankWO2_141241.jpg

Source: https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/beelden/d...7-d3afff38e8b5


beeldbankWO2_141255.jpg

Source: https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/beelden/d...8-2a3b46bae836

[Jordan Baker]

The marks all along the side of the hull and turret appear to be remains of welding spare track links to the hull. It could be why its difficult to find a wartime picture of the tank

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

The marks all along the side of the hull and turret appear to be remains of welding spare track links to the hull. It could be why its difficult to find a wartime picture of the tank

Indeed, it must have been fitted with spare track welded to the sides. A good example of the extensive use of spare tracks as extra/ stand-off armour is shown in the left hand picture. It shows Sherman tanks of the Governor Generals Horse Guards Regiment while advancing over the Hommelseweg, Arnhem on 15 April 1945 (note: the second tank is commanded by Capt. Robert Murray - source). This picture was taken about 7 km. from where Argyll Roger stands today, but it is not the same Sherman. After WW2 ended, most tanks were stripped from any additions, repainted and serviced to be paraded and then handed in.

On the right: a picture of Argyll Roger's two distinctive spare track links welded to the RH final drive housing. Here's hoping one day someone comes across a picture with showing this distinctive feature!

2608.jpg beeldbankWO2_141255-2-redlined.jpg

[maple_leaf_eh]

Like a dog with a bone! You are tenacious.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Like a dog with a bone! You are tenacious.

Grrr - one day I will find out!

And thanks

H.