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  #1  
Old 20-08-11, 05:41
chris vickery's Avatar
chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nipissing Ontario Canada
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OK, here goes.

In Ontario, to transfer a vehicle you need to have a bill of sale indicating to whom, from whom, how much etc. As well as this, you require the vehicle ownership, signed, dated and filled out with the purchaser info.
Now, here is the kicker. If the vehicle is over 20 years in age, you also require an appraisal from a certified, recognized appraiser to confirm the vehicles value. We pay tax on the higher of the two values, either appraised or bill of sale. Pay 13% HST plus $10 transfer

If it is less than 20 years old, the Ministry of Transportation has book value on file, once again, it is the higher value, either book or bill of sale. Pay 13%HST plus 10$ transfer.

We also get dinged $20 on a Used Vehicle Information package, which confirms all previous in province owners, without this they will not re-register to your name.

Now, if the vehicle has never been registered (many mv type vehs), there is technically no ownership. They need to create one. You need a bill of sale, an appraisal and an affidavit attesting that all the info presented is true and to the best of your knowledge. You pay x$ for the affidavit, so much for the new ownership, 13% HST based on the appraisal or the bill of sale. Of course you need to pay the appraisers fee. Next comes down to convincing the MTO as to what category the veh should be registered as (think ferret or other oddball mv)

The crazy part in all this is that value is deemed by one of two things; book value for vehs less than 20 years or appraised value regardless of appraisal unless the bill of sale indicates a higher value paid for vehs 20 and over.
For enthusiasts, here is a scenario. Suppose you purchase a rolling wreck?
You simply want it registered in your name;
-affidavit
-ownership creation fee
-13%HST on determined value
-fees for appraisal
Maybe you say, no, I will restore it first and then register- BAD MOVE
you will pay all the formentioned but now, 13% HST on the HIGHER value. You just paid HST on all the parts and labour and you will pay again on the newly appraised value.

I understand that it seems stupid to have to have a wreck appraised but here in ontario that is how it works. Unfortunately what was happening was that guys were writing undervalued receipts for unfit vehicles, registering them one day as unfit based on the lowballed value and then going in the next day with a safety certification and transferring the vehcile into a fit, plated status. The gov't caught on and now here we are.

Confused yet????
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1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC
1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC
1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC
1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR
1943 Converto Airborne Trailer
1983 M1009 CUCV
1957 Triumph TRW 500cc

RT-524, PRC-77s,
and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and.......

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  #2  
Old 20-08-11, 07:28
Mike Baker Mike Baker is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Comox, BC
Posts: 110
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In BC there is a Transfer/Tax form to fill out, and if you don't have the previous registration certificate then you are in for a BIG headache. I bought my M38A1 last year from the widow of the previous owner, who had let the registration lapse around 1989 and then left in it the back of his shop for 21 years (until he died unexpectedly in a car accident). She didn't have the previous registration, (which it later turned out was in the name of a defunct company he owned) and even though ICBC accepted that he was dead and that she had inherited his estate, that wasn't good enough. The widow had to get her lawyer to establish that her husband had owned the truck (and of course ICBC wouldn't simply tell us who it was previously registered to because of the Privacy Act), then it had to be transferred into her name (and the appropriate fees paid) before she could transfer it to me with the proper registration certificate (at which point I had to pay the fees again as well as sales tax!). All of that took 11 months, at which point I had valid license plates and insurance for a vehicle which hadn't been on the road in 22 years, and didn't even have working brakes. But I paid the fees and the tax, so it was perfectly legal to drive it!

Long story short, avoid registering anything in BC.

Mike
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  #3  
Old 20-08-11, 08:55
Matthew Reid Matthew Reid is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St Albert, Canada
Posts: 80
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Ya it seems that Alberta Sask and possibly Man (have no idea about Man) Motor Vehicles have basically washed thier hands of tracking ownership and are leaving it up to the purchasing individual to insure they are buying the vehicle from the legal owner and that there are no leins on it.

If you do buy a vehicle in Alberta then registered a vehicle that has a lein on it. So sad to bad, you failed to do your due diligence to insure it was free and clear when you bought it.

Any issues in regards to legal ownership become a civil or criminal matter for the courts and or the RCMP/Local PD to resolve. This helps keep the operating cost of Motor Vehicles as low as possible and the prosses of vehicle registration as quick and efficaint as it reasonably can be, thus keeping operating costs down and thus saving tax dollars.

Anybody can make something complicated and fortunetly there are still a couple provinces in the country that keep things as simple as possible when it comes to vehicle registration.

This fortunetly does work out for individuals trying to register old and oddball vehicles in some of the other provinces.

As some Provinces Motor Vehicle Depts will see an Alberta Bill of sale and run with that and ask for no other documentation as they know they are not likly going get anything else but that piece of paper. They can not exactly ask for a title or permit of ownership or registration of ownership as Alberta does not issue any of those.

The same rules apply to Alberta as Sask for Provincial inspections, a vehicle that has never been registered in Alberta previosly or was last registered out of province or it has been so many years since it was last registered in Alberta it has rolled out of the system, the vehicle must have an out province inspection before registration will be issued.
After that it will never need another provincial inspection ever.
Unless the registration again laspes for so long it rolls off the system.

So additonally there is no record of inspection on a vehicles history with Motor Vehicals unless it was required to have an out of province inspection.

But we do not suffer the serious corrsion issues here as some of the other provinces and do not have near the number of vehciles on the road.


The insurance company's here may request a superficial road worthyness inspection once a vehicle hits ten to 12 year old and it is being newly insured with that carrier.

My uncles truck (an 89 F250) has been continously registered and insured in Alberta since new. Just last year after hitting 21 years old and never have been inspected his insurance company asked if he would not mind getting it inspected.
This was not even a demand but an optional request to keep it in a lower insurance bracket as opposed to not being inspected.


Matthew

Last edited by Matthew Reid; 20-08-11 at 09:05.
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  #4  
Old 20-08-11, 21:01
Michel D's Avatar
Michel D Michel D is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gatineau
Posts: 59
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Thanks for all your help! I will try to plate the truck as soon as possible.
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  #5  
Old 21-08-11, 06:25
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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A PDF version of the form Peter put up earlier is attached, hopefully someone will be able to use the form or at least use it as a model if it suits the legal process in your area. If you find transcription errors in the file, please let me know so I can adjust it.

Peter, you also made reference to an appraisal form that was accepted in your area. If you think it is likely to be of use to others, can you send me a copy that can be posted similar to the affadavit form?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf simundson affadavit.pdf (33.4 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by Grant Bowker; 21-08-11 at 06:29. Reason: included reference to the appraisal form
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  #6  
Old 22-08-11, 02:09
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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The Ontario appraisal form that Peter referred to can be found at:
http://www.rev.gov.on.ca/en/forms/rst/pdf/1159.pdf
The french version is at:
http://www.rev.gov.on.ca/fr/forms/rst/pdf/1159.pdf
In case you can't get the links to work for you a copy is attached.
The form can be completed on computer, then printed if you wish. One gotcha that I noticed is that they want the appraisal done within 60 days of purchase, so don't delay until you are ready to move on to licensing to get an appraisal. Otherwise you might have to sell to a friend and then repurchase it for the same value just to have a recently dated bill of sale to be able to get an appraisal. Seems crazy.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ontario appraisal form 1159.pdf (157.0 KB, 4 views)
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