Modified Conventional Pattern Trucks

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

To complement and compliment my colleague's very well set out description, the DND (Department of National Defence) papers from 1940 refer to Modified Commercial Pattern. That was at the time when they also mentioned DND-pattern trucks (with the C30S/F30S).

As an aside, and example, the Candian Chevrolet Model 1543 was a 'popular' civvy model, being a 2-tonner with 160 inch wheelbase. There were however at least three known MCP variants as the 1941 Model-on CC60L:

CC60Lx1 = DUAL REAR CIVILIAN WHEELS
CC60Lx2 = SINGLE REAR MILITARY WHEELS
CC60Lx3 = DUAL REAR CIVILIAN STYLE WHEELS

I think that these suffixes were meant to relate to the GM of Canada export destination codes that were suffixes to the model numbers, and used from 1935 to 1958 at least:

X EXPORT DESTINATION CODES AFTER SERIAL NUMBERS:
X1 ANY POINT EXCEPT FULLY BUILT UP
X2 UNITED KINGDOM BUILT UP
X3 INDIA CKD
X4 AUSTRALIA CKD
X5 NEW ZEALAND CKD ALTHOUGH ASSEMBLED TRUCKS HAD “XH”
X6 BATAVIA, NETHERLANDS EAST INDIES CKD
X7 UNITED KINGDOM CKD
X8 ANY POINT CKD
X9 SOUTH AFRICA CKD ALTHOUGH ASSEMBLED TRUCKS HAD “XG”

Known other Chevrolet MCP trucks include 1/2 ton 115" wheelbase Model 1311X3 for India (and alsdo some for the LRDG), 1421 1-ton chassis with flat-face cowl 125" wheelbase, 1531 2-ton 134 1/2" wheelbase chassis with cab including 200 1533x2 for the LRDG.

That said I suddenly realised that I have photos and descriptions of Modified Conventional Chassis in my collection, which should be going into a DVD album in the future:

1542x3 3-ton 160" w.b.
1533x2 3-ton 134 1/2" w.b. with 9.00 x 16 wheels
1543x2 3-ton 160" w.b. with dual perfomance axle and 20x6 wheels and single rears
9543 GMC equivalent of 1543 with stake & rack body with 30.2hp 224 cu in GMC engine
AC-704 GMC 178" w.b. firefighting lorry..278 cu in GMC engine 178" wheelbase
1500 series 2-ton ambulance ..probably 1535 2-ton panel delivery 134 1/2" wheelbase
1600 series 2 1/2 ton aircraft gasser...probably 1663 chassis with cab 163 1/4" wheelbase MAPLE LEAF

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

As an aside, and example, the Candian Chevrolet Model 1543 was a 'popular' civvy model, being a 2-tonner with 160 inch wheelbase. There were however at least three known MCP variants as the 1941 Model-on CC60L:

CC60Lx1 = DUAL REAR CIVILIAN WHEELS
CC60Lx2 = SINGLE REAR MILITARY WHEELS
CC60Lx3 = DUAL REAR CIVILIAN STYLE WHEELS

I think that these suffixes were meant to relate to the GM of Canada export destination codes that were suffixes to the model numbers, and used from 1935 to 1958 at least:

X EXPORT DESTINATION CODES AFTER SERIAL NUMBERS:
X1 ANY POINT EXCEPT FULLY BUILT UP
X2 UNITED KINGDOM BUILT UP
X3 INDIA CKD

David,

Good you mention this. It strengthens my idea that the Modified Conventional Pattern class were Canadian-built vehicles primarily built to meet British War Office specifications after the Fall of France had decimated their vehicle inventory.

The line between the first and second category is difficult to draw. Vanderveen lists 388,299 4x2 Commercial and Modified Conventional vehicles were produced in Canada, of which more than half were 3-ton 4x2 Modified Conventional.

H.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

TOTAL CANADIAN MILITARY PATTERN TRUCKS
8 CWT. 4 x 2 9,837
HEAVY UTILITY 4 x 4 12,967
15 CWT. 4 x 2 34,195
15 CWT. 4 x 4 69,227
30 CWT. 4 x 4 19,319
3 TON 4 x 2 6,000
3 TON 4 x 4 209,004
FAT 4 x 4 22,891
3 TON 6 x 4 [FORD] 4,123
3 TON 6 x 6 [CHEV C60X] 2,710
TRAILERS 19,663
TOTAL 409,936

TOTAL MODIFIED CONVENTIONAL PATTERN TRUCKS

15 CWT. 4 x 2 88,096
30 CWT. 4 x 2 21,188
3 TON 4 x 2 197,073
TOTAL 306,357

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

It strengthens my idea that the Modified Conventional Pattern class were Canadian-built vehicles primarily built to meet British War Office specifications after the Fall of France had decimated their vehicle inventory.

I see where you are coming from here and it is well thought-out but the evidence shows that this may not have been the case. The first reference to the British Purchasing Commission placing orders in Oshawa was around 22nd June 1940, so the Ministry of Supply must therefore have been intending to place orders for DND Pattern and Commercial Pattern trucks some weeks earlier and thus before the Fall of France.

S/M 2005 totalled 4,787 Chevrolet 3-ton 1941 Model CC60L 4x2 trucks, split 3,150 for Egypt, 670 for Mombasa and 867 for England with 71 Stores, Wreckers and Machinery split 50 for Egyptt, 10 for Mombasa and 11 for England.

Demand 2004 totalled 5,742 3-Ton Ford 3-ton 4x2 EC098TFS trucks plus 86 of each of Stores, Wreckers and Machinery.

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Do you fellows know more about the Australian "Local Pattern" ??

Anyone know of or have access to Australian army archival inventory lists, specifications etc??

Tony, an interesting query! I don't know the answer myself about Local Pattern but there may be some information in the Ford and GM books by Norm Darwin published by Eddie Ford. I would be interested to know more myself.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

I see where you are coming from here and it is well thought-out but the evidence shows that this may not have been the case. The first reference to the British Purchasing Commission placing orders in Oshawa was around 22nd June 1940, so the Ministry of Supply must therefore have been intending to place orders for DND Pattern and Commercial Pattern trucks some weeks earlier and thus before the Fall of France.

Agree about the date, but what it seems to boil down to is that the Modified Conventional Pattern class were Canadian-built vehicles primarily built to meet British War Office specifications. Other military users, including the Canadian Army back home, could be satisfied with Commercial trucks modified to a lesser degree.

Bear in mind the CMP range of vehicles are what they are because they had to meet British War Office specifications...

H.

[George McKenzie]

I have a 1942 Ford half ton truck . Ford said he didn't make a half ton for civilion use .This truck has no military changes .I talk to a fellow in Texas that sold one like it and he said there was 1300 made . I know of a Cheve , Ford and 3 International Conventional trucks here that were used by the army . They all are low milage trucks about 1.5 to 2 tons with stake bodies. I saw a Ford truck that was used in the army that is a tandem drive .We had a 1940 Studabaker half ton That was used for an ambulace ,hears and taxi as there were very few trucks that had good tires for those years .We were lucky the Government didn't want it . I thankyou for this great bunch of information

[Scott Cacciamani]

Hi, Great tread. Does anyone have figures for Ford half ton pickups (15cwt) sold to the British army in Lybia or in general. I'm partcularly interestred in the 1940 models used by the lrdg. It appears at least the early ones were bought off a lot. I do see ford pickups in Palestine from 1937 on and it looks like the Indian army used a great many. thanks

[Konstantin Chernov]

Probably in the picture is a Maple Leaf 16 series 2.5-tone with a GM-H cab.How was this vehicle designated in Australia? 16-41/Е? What wheelbase could it have? 135 1/4", 159 1/4" or 177 1/4"?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Konstantin Chernov

Probably in the picture is a Maple Leaf 16 series 2.5-tone with a GM-H cab.How was this vehicle designated in Australia? 16-41/Е? What wheelbase could it have? 135 1/4", 159 1/4" or 177 1/4"?

The wheelbase should be listed in the chart found in this thread: What makes a truck a Maple Leaf?