genuine or repro ??? That is the question !

[RichardT10829]

never mind..... still at least everything from the track guards down, etc is original

[shaun]

richie at least you will be sitting with a lot of real carrier around you.

[ajmac]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

never mind..... still at least everything from the track guards down, etc is original

You're just fine Richie, when is it to be rolled out? I hear Martyn has been trying to get you down to Lincoln for a day of hot riveting!

At work we have to follow international guidlines for export control to unfriendly countries - who happen to have oil - the interpritation of the rules (at least there are some) is quite open. We were only allowed 25% USA contant in parts to be exported to Iran and Libya (this was around 2003/4), however it didn't say how that 25% was to be judged. 25% by number of components, 25% by weight or 25% by value, even by choosing the best case we were still over the 25%, so the part in question was slipped into a chassis made in the UK and retained by a little stainless steel bar, thus it could be shipped as 'as a component' the 25% had not been exceeded. That little story must also be considered in the restoration field, if an 'originality criterion' was to be made law, how would it be worded? It would make a huge difference. A bare hull from a UC would be enough to give you a big chunk of the wight based criterion, change that to a 'component' based criterion and it would be just one small part. Obviously the government went through the same discussions when issuing the road going 'originality' requirements. It's mighty interesting.

I managed to dig out the old points system:
The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark.

The following values will be allocated to the major components used:

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

I suppose the greyest of grey areas comes into play concerning the parts themselves....
If you have a T16 axle grafted onto the back of your regular UC then the 'none originality' is plain to see, however one from another carrier of the correct type would pass with flying colours and yet wouldn't be the original one fitted to your vehicle. Because of this grey, I expect the detail of the above regulations, say 'of the original type' or some such weasel words!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

never mind..... still at least everything from the track guards down, etc is original

Indeed, never mind, you are resurrecting a wreck into a driving piece of history. That is a big accomplishment! After 70 years or so, it is to be expected the vehicle you started with is not complete and parts had to be remanufactured. At least your carrier will have many more original parts than the average flying warbird with so-called "provenance" (only because they saved the ID plate from a wreck. . .)

I think it is important to differentiate between what road authorities requires for registration, versus what the collective collectorship deems appropriate. The former is written down in all sorts of legislation, the latter is often up to personal taste. I know people who replace original metal because it is "too pitted" and they prefer that "factory fresh" look.

H.

[eddy8men]

hey man if it's green and puts a smile on your face just go with it. we ain't professionals we're enthusiasts doing what we can.
the bottom line is this, all the complete original vehicles are long gone or in museums the only way to obtain original kit is often to take it from another vehicle which then renders that one less complete. don't get me wrong i'd love to find a wharehouse full to the rafters with carrier spares but that's not likely, just do the best that you can and try to enjoy it and just remember if it all gets too much and you lose interest in the hobby you could always buy a jeep

eddy

[Hans Mulder]

If you have a T16 axle grafted onto the back of your regular UC then the 'none originality' is plain to see, however one from another carrier of the correct type would pass with flying colours and yet wouldn't be the original one fitted to your vehicle. Because of this grey, I expect the detail of the above regulations, say 'of the original type' or some such weasel words!

As the owner of a frankencarrier with a T16 axle and more mods, I'm more of a "50ft test" fan: Is it a MV? Does it look like a MV from 50ft? Does it operate more or less the way an MV is supposed to?

Rivet counting is fun if someone is trying to pass off a replica or reproduction as the real thing, but if it is the real thing and has been resurrected from a butchered state to running condition, I'm not going to count rivets or note the lack of a period fire extinguisher or the non-original cloth used to cover the seats. Think of your MV more as living history: whatever it takes to make it "presentable" and running benefits more people than if it is rusting away in the yard pending the find of an original light or factory seat or NOS gauges.

When I got my frankencarrier I took it out as is for Remembrance Day. Despite its configuration two vets, (one WW2 NW Europe, one Korean War) both instantly recognized it for what it was and enjoyed every minute riding on it. While it does not at present meet my own test, it sure passed their test.

[chris vickery]

Everyone has their own individual opinion, taste and financial status.
As pointed out by previous postings, there is a vast array of ideas as to what is right or wrong etc.
Bottom line, enjoy what you do to the best of your ability.
I think that overall, the main issue here is in regard to those who pass off, or try to pass off, items that are less than 100% authentic. This is nothing new.. It has been done for centuries, passing off fakes for the real deal.
If a fellow is happy with his Jeep, carrier or tank, so be it. Just be upfront when you go to sell it and you'll never go wrong...

[George McKenzie]

I am restoring a 42 WLC It is now ready for paint .I was fortunate to be able to do it with all original parts This is very important because with motorcycles if you are stopped by a traffic police and the numbers don't match they can keep the bike till they can prove that it is not stolen parts . I will be happy with my carriers, that they will have some oiriginal numbers on them and the parts will be from original or close to original parts .That way they won't be sitting beside another carrier with the same numbers on them and only a few will know the difference in what was not original . My neighbour is old and has been restoring a modle T Ford .He now wants to sell it but to a guy that knows about the T's it is built from parts 1918-1927 .Someone will buy it and have a great time with it as long as it works .My 1928 Modle A Ford has the original spare tire but the other ones have been changed once so there is very few things that are original . We will have more of a problem putting on proper decals as to where it was in the army .

[shaun]

I was discussing this thread with another collector today, he rarely reads this forum but is quite prolific on others, he pointed me to a recent HMVF Thread ( i am already registered on there) might i surgest all concerned parties read it. it backs up one of my recent comments about DVLA watching the web !

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...-what-you-post!

[Lynn Eades]

This is where I am at. Have you ever gone into one so far?