11 and 12 cabs

[paul Lincoln]

Not too many people reply to their own threads, I am thinking. Having established that there were no MH axles fitted to 11 cab F30's , but some early Chevs. Can I now pose the question "Did all 11 cab F30's get Chev axles, or were there both sorts fitted?"
It is realy the switch and front bumper part of the question that I am trying to get to the bottom of, although the axle / brake subject seems to have got you thinking. Many thanks for the interest so far. I await further developments!

[cliff]

Originally Posted by paul Lincoln

"Did all 11 cab F30's get Chev axles, or were there both sorts fitted?"

Once Ford started producing their own axles they used them so there would have been both sorts used during construction.

I owned a very early 11 cab Ford with no vents in New Zealand a number of years ago which had been converted by the NZ Army to Ford axles when it was rebuilt in 1953 or there abouts.

Edit Looking through the Ford Factory photos on Service Publications CD the 11 cabs had the towing eyes behind the bumper. Of the few 12 cab photos one dated 1941 showed a 15cwt with the towing eyes behind the bumper but another of an 8cwt did not have any towing eyes at all. I would say that early production cab 12's had some 11 cab parts fitted until supplies were used up.

[Lynn Eades]

The Jeep wheels were also made by Kelsey- Hayes.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I am writing from memory but seem to recall that there was concern in the small team from Ford of Canada that were tasked with the designing the DND-pattern trucks that the Ford front axle was not strong enough. In the 2-wheel drive chassis the '40 US COE Ford front axle was used initially.

From my notes I have found:

Chevrolets had conventional banjo type differentials, the Fords had a Timken-type differential which split vertically [“split-type”] because of the use of the Marmon-Herrington [“M.-H.”] front drive set-up which was the transfer case, front axle and differential and Rzeppa constant-velocity universal joint steering ends: the M.-H. system utilised Timken-designed and/or manufactured components though that were similar to those fitted to G.M.C. C.O.E. trucks. However, some Fords used Chevrolet [McKinnon] differentials, and some early build Ford F.15A trucks, F.A.T.s and later Ford F.60Ls used Chevrolet axles. 47 early Ford F.15A trucks had a G.M. banjo-type rear axle and Ford split-type front unit. The G.M. system was designed in-house, possibly through the Pontiac and Flint Plants in conjunction with Chevrolet’s axle division: in the U.S. Chevrolet’s axle plant produced all G.M.C. and Chevrolet transfer cases, and used Bendix-Weiss universal joint steering ends instead of Rzeppa. Transmission components were however produced by McKinnon Industries Limited, St. Catherines, Ontario, under licence where required.

Rzeppa design Universal Joint and axle shafts as fitted by Ford to the front of 4 x 4 trucks were interchangeable with the G.M.-used Bendix-Weiss, but the D.N.D. in Ottawa suggested in 1940 that both right- and left-assemblies of the same type be fitted rather than mix-and-match.

I will have a look at any photos I have of early F30 front views.

As regards wheels, this is the informatiom from the DND papers relating to the 1938 15-cwt trucks that in the event Ford declined to build:

. Wheels for the 15-cwt. Trucks were of a size and type not at that time in commercial use in Canada, thought they conformed to W.D. specifications and were especially suitable for D.N.D. requirements. A review of the Canadian automotive industry had established that there was only the Kelsey Wheel Company Limited of Windsor who were equipped to produce automotive wheels. The company was approached by the D.N.D. a short time before and quotations received for special wheels for the trucks. The Ottawa Car Manufacturing Company Limited were also given an opportunity to quote, but had not at that time done so. The quotations received indicated that production facilities of the special wheels could be established at reasonable cost. The Kelsey company were in possession of the main items required for production of the wheels but would need to make special tool equipment and the cost of the tooling would have to be absorbed in the initial order for wheels. It therefore appeared to be best to place responsibility with the vehicle manufacturing companies. .......

As regards brake drums, there is no evidence in the papers that anyone produced them for Ford; in fact Windsor quoted a figure to produce special drum sizes that the DND would have to pay the machinery and tooling costs for, so may i suggest that Ford produced their own castings?

[paul Lincoln]

Me again ! We are getting a few sightings of 11 cab features on 12 cab vehicles, but not the other way round. Anyone who is farmiliar with the book by Alastair Timpson called "In Rommel's Back Yard" will know that there is a F30 pictured on the cover. It is a Long Range Desert Group vehicle fitted with 5 assorted machine guns. The photo is from the IWM, London. On close inspection, there are 12 cab, swivel type towing eyes on the front bumper (fitted mid way up the bumper). I have only ever seen reference to 70 Ford F30 trucks going to LRDG in March 1941. These all seem to have Chev axles and from most photos seem to be 11 cabs. This vehicle has Chev axles. Has the bumper been swapped? Why were the 70 F30's fitted with early Chev axles if they arrived late on in 11 cab production, or even early in 12 cab times?
Recently I have spotted switches, not push/ pull type in a photo and now these later towing eyes.
Did LRDG get some more F30's later? All serial numbers that I have come across are much the same. e.g. 4406012 4406114.
Many thanks for continued comment.