New cast Bren gun pintles

shaun · #1 27-03-11, 01:05

with my museum professional head on i could say so much on the subject of repro parts being passed off for genuine, like making a jeep out of 99% new parts and claiming its a 1942. in fact DVLA are now clamping down on such vehicles, mainly landrovers on old tax free plates but im sure they are looking at other "reproduced" vehicles (whoops i went into a bit of a rant there, sorry guys ! ) Ben the mounts a great !

Phil Waterman · #2 27-03-11, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaun

with my museum professional head on i could say so much on the subject of repro parts being passed off for genuine, like making a jeep out of 99% new parts and claiming its a 1942. in fact DVLA are now clamping down on such vehicles, mainly landrovers on old tax free plates but im sure they are looking at other "reproduced" vehicles (whoops i went into a bit of a rant there, sorry guys ! ) Ben the mounts a great !

Hi Shaun

You raise a very interesting and important issue. I like the method used by the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington DC their policy when restoring aircraft is that parts they fabricate are Stamped as being reproduction. Once I heard about that I've tried to do the same on restoring my CMPs stuff that is non-original which might be misleading to the person after I'm gone are marked with a date installed. Generally I try to punch these in with number stamp. Of my three CMPs there is only one that I would claim to be original, the others are composites. When we re-engine a vehicle it is often the only way to able to drive the trucks.

We have all seen Jeeps and other vehicles which they basically jacked up the data plate and rolled a new vehicle up behind it and attached the data plate and called it the same vehicle. Doesn't detract from vehicle interest as examples of vehicles or from enjoying driving them.

Of course as we get further and further from the date of manufacture of any vehicle it is harder and harder to have an original vehicle. I have really enjoyed watching some of the members of the forum carefully cleaning and restoring parts, sometimes this is because a replacement is not available while other times it is because they want to retain as many parts as possible.

Cheers Phil

Robin Craig · #3 27-03-11, 19:21

My policy is like Phil's, I stamp "repro" in an unseen area my initials and the date. And declare as such if passing the vehicle into someone else's ownership.

R

Ben · #4 27-03-11, 20:49

Thank you all for your comments

I think you have a point, any parts should be marked in an unobtrusive way. The purpose as far as I'm concerned is in no way to miss lead anyone or pass them off as anything they are not, just to help fellow carrier owners furnish their vehicles.

I think in a funny sort of way the concern you are showing just confirms how good they look compared to the original and reassures me that they will look the part once fitted to a vehicle.

Ben

RichardT10829 · #5 28-03-11, 00:19

Ben i would like to thank you for doing the leg work on this, we seem to have gone from discussing production of a good quality replacement to ethics on the use of them...... god bless the human race

suppose if you scribe in repro and a date on the inside, then for what ever reason if someone wants to remove them at a later date (for why i would not know) then who ever removes them can see they were not cast during the war. alternate ruin your good work by stamping in stuff in visable place...like a visible vin i suppose.....

personally i dont think this should have to be your responsibility (its a lot of extra work for you and stamping cast brass can cause breakages) IMHO its down to the individual to list down what is new and original on their carriers.... for me its all documented and i will stamp the part somehow.....so i guess if this is the case i should stamp all the armour plate ? and the segments of post war steel that i have stitched into the original platework to complete my bulkhead then there are the re rubbered wheels corr that will be a nightmare. now technically those who pilfered bits from other carriers for their own should do the same ? stamping in some denomination that indicates they were not fitted at factory...or fitted during restoration.

i am a big believer of honesty but the question must surely be raised....where do you stop ? and how do you justify where you stop ?

i will no doubt get flamed for this post but its a fair and valid thought is it not ?

we are leapyears away with this from what has been mentioned regarding ringing of chassis etc etc... this i firmly frown upon

Phil Waterman · #6 28-03-11, 00:55

Hi All

Please excuse any unintentional negative inference in my comments.

Ben should take any concern about not being able to tell his parts from good condition original very much as a compliment for taking the time to do a really good job.

Might I suggest that we start a new thread, not related to any particular restoration project, to discuss how to convey the history of vehicles and their parts. The photo albums that most the restorers on this forum seem to keep document the meticulous care taken in both restoring "original" parts and the fabrication of missing or un-restoreable parts.

Cheers Phil

Again my apologies

Lynn Eades · #7 28-03-11, 01:24

Firstly Ben I think your castings look great!
Second Rich, you are right this should be a separate thread.
By the way you cant stop there. I have no idea what you are talking about with "ringing chassis" Please explain.
Some people are lucky or prepared enough to have aquired a carrier that needs a bit of paint, and the oil levels checked. A quick flick of the wrist and she's fully restored.
The other 99 out of a 100 have carriers in a different state. I see a Loyd on this forum being rebuilt (or is it "built from scratch")
I know that Ben is also pretty brave/ bold starting from where he is.
My LP will be about 20% one carrier 20% another. bits of English or Canadian
( some original parts from Canada were used anyhow) I will make a lot of bits.
I cannot find info on it to detail the dash board area. I will have to "wing it"
If I do the best I can, am I doing a restoration, or is it going to be a jalopy?
I never planned to mark any bits I make. Maybe I should be?

George McKenzie · #8 28-03-11, 04:09

In the auto restorations the drive line is the only thing that is important to keep it original .I am the second owner of a 1928 A Ford cvt that is original ,but it has a honey comb radiater and a single plate glass windsheild .Ford said he never did this in his cars .This likely was done at the factory because they probly ran out of these parts when making them so they used jobber parts. The quality of the parts that are being made for the carriers is so good I wouldn't think they would need a build date on them .

ajmac · #9 28-03-11, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

or is it "built from scratch"

Not quite from scratch Lynn

There will be more original wartime parts than can be found in most airworthy WW2 aircraft....or having said that, more than all the 'original' vintage racing cars in Europe. I could have left those wrecks in the scrapyard, or brought a rare vehicle back to life and not be forgotten (there are NO running Loyds in the UK), I chose the latter, but I really do see the point of view regarding originality.
The loyd is an odd vehicle, even a good project today requires virtually all the hull replacing as they are only 2mm thick, the drivers floor rots both itself and the lower chassis rail away by design. As far as I know every restored Loyd in Europe has been made up from at LEAST two wrecks! Except Pauls that is