Carrier found in Norfolk yesterday 21/12/2010 - Page 4

kevin powles · #91 18-01-11, 13:16

Shaun, I have finished the cover and re-furbished yours, The original cover is basically three pieces of metal, The main contoured part is pressed out on a machine, the protruding flap arrangement is welded on as is a small piece of metal on the inside of the handbrake cutout.

If you are going to make this you need an original in your hand to copy. The cover is held in place by four bolts, one of those bolts also attaches through one hole for fixing down the brake pivot triangle floor bracket, hence a counter sunk 3/8" goes through. I have rounded over the protruding flap since taking the pictures

I can see why so many carriers dont feature this cover as to remove and replace it, you need to have two men one to stop the bolts turning as you tighten the nuts under the carrier.

I will bring yours back over next week once the grenade wooden holders are finished.

thanks for the loan, kevin.

RichardT10829 · #92 18-01-11, 14:35

so when does the reproduction run start Kevin

kevin powles · #93 18-01-11, 16:09

Rich, As soon as you borrow the cover off Shaun!,

Love to make more but got just to much else to do on the mortar carrier.

Kev.

shaun · #94 18-01-11, 20:41

Kevin, nice job on the cover. I think there is a que forming to borrow it. did not realize how rare they were.

Anyway i dropped the hull off at the blasters yesterday, it was a tad on the wet side so i hope its dry when i get it back next week. Here are a couple of photos of it looking all loanly awaiting blasting.

eddy8men · #95 18-01-11, 23:12

that's a nice bit of fabrication there kevin, i was just trying to figure out how i could do it with a sheet metal folder but it would probably end up looking like a dogs hind leg but then again it would go well with the rest of my carrier

eddy

shaun · #96 31-01-11, 20:04

Picked up the carrier hull from the blasters, next is to cut out the metal moth and make good. only 200 rivets to do !!!!

RichardT10829 · #97 31-01-11, 20:06

I has been a busy bee when it comes to rivetting PM me your mobile and i will send you a cheeky pic....I has a cunning plan that may save you a lot of time !

Marc van Aalderen · #98 31-01-11, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

I has been a busy bee when it comes to rivetting PM me your mobile and i will send you a cheeky pic....I has a cunning plan that may save you a lot of time !

Now you've made me curious mate! Come on, show us you're cunning plan!

Cheers,

Lynn Eades · #99 31-01-11, 21:36

I second that!

shaun · #**100** 31-01-11, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

I has been a busy bee when it comes to rivetting PM me your mobile and i will send you a cheeky pic....I has a cunning plan that may save you a lot of time !

Richie, the photo came through fine. an interesting idea. Ben has found a good riveter over his way who thinks a carrier is an easy job compared to the stuff he normally does so im going to get him to smack the 200 in for me.
i do like your thinking though, veery tidy job ( i bet thats got the rest of you guys pondering - its up to Richie to blow the cover on his machining)

RichardT10829 · #**101** 01-02-11, 00:56

I discussed this with Kevin last year but the prep work was labour intensive i have made a jig to go into a lathe so can turn them out by the bucket load now. I failed miserably to form the heads on the rivets on the outside of the hull correctly (truss head) so decided it was a toss up between countersink and rivet frenzy or some machine work.

will get some pics tomorrow and post them up.

eddy8men · #**102** 01-02-11, 10:27

i was going to use coach bolts to put my radiator armour back on, they look identical to rivets, infact if you were picky you could bash the bolt head to give it the abused rivet look. the big advantage is of course nuts and bolts are easy and can be removed and refitted as many times as you like, there's also the cost to consider as 200 coach bolts will cost you about £50. the down side is you will be able to see the nuts on the inside but don't worry if you're at a show and someone starts to critisize your nuts just knock 'em out, put 'em in the drivers seat with a tin hat on and say it's part of your display

eddy

RichardT10829 · #**103** 01-02-11, 10:36

please excuse my first crude attempt to see if the theory would work.... the idea is i will weld up the inside of my armour where the plates meet...the sections hidden by the angle bar.... then for the frame rails i will drill and plug weld the plates to the frame rails....the fake rivets with some locktite added will be wound on and should give the correct appearence. but majority of strength taken up by the welds... i have done a crude load test with the rivet under tension and i could hang a road wheel from it without it pulling.

i took a rivet out of the original armour and the closest coach bolt (18mm head) was the standard M6 i had tried the M8's but the head was slightly too big and the shank size did not leave enough material on the rivet to thread.

some will probably say LOTS OF WORK THAT ! and they would be correct but... using a pillar drill i drilled and tapped 3 rivets in 15 mins. on a lathe with a jig i can center the rivet easier and will be able to produce them much quicker.

for those who may not brave hot rivetting.....i tried and failed.... this may be an option

sorry if i have hijacked the thread Shaun...i suppose its kinda relevant to where you are with your build.

kevin powles · #**104** 01-02-11, 12:06

Richard, When i did mine it wasnt a big enough challange and wanted to punish myself further, you have used coach bolts there, try getting a 5/16" truss head rivet and putting a thread on it aswell like i did, then make 100 more of them aswell as drilling and tapping out the 3/8" round head rivet like you have then you will wish you could master the rivet gun.

Its o.k. and looks fine with a bit of bashing over at the end but boy what a boring job it was doing 100.

You will need therapy at the end of it, if i did it again i would gear myself up for riveting, its also the correct way of doing it.

kev.

RichardT10829 · #**105** 01-02-11, 12:26

yup your right there kev I have the forge and snaps but getting the heads correct is an artform and a lost art at that one mistake and your drilling out rivets no second chances. You are right it is boring but i am spurred on at the moment to get my carrier finished before summer time.

shaun · #**106** 01-02-11, 12:29

They look great but i dont think its going to cost more than about £500 quid to get my rivets done. I did speak to an old mate not far from home who use to a lot for the local steam museum, he said i coul borrow his riveting kit but this guy Ben has found knows the process very well. i would rather spend half a day trailering my hull to him than 5 days going deaf. I will of course post the results on here once i have had the riveting done. Richie you need to pray for more snow so you can get stuck in the workshop behind the lathe ha ha ha

tankbarrell · #**107** 01-02-11, 12:33

I've done quite a few hot rivets from 3/8" up to 3/4" dia. and it's not hard. There is a fairly steep learning curve but I would not consider doing it any other way now.

RichardT10829 · #**108** 01-02-11, 12:49

hop in yer car and mosey up north then buddy

eddy8men · #**109** 01-02-11, 14:16

if you want to use rivets but are a bit wary of doing it hot, how about cold riveting with copper rivets, it would give you as long as like to fiddle about with them, personally i'm going to stick with the coach bolts but some might like the more original approach.

eddy

RichardT10829 · #**110** 02-02-11, 23:30

i think if copper rivets were used alone they may sheer with the vibrations...same with aluminium i would guess. mind i bet they would be easier to peen over

Jordan Baker · #**111** 02-02-11, 23:49

I used coach bolts and nuts on the inside. Once all the stuff (bins) are mounted inside the veh you really can't see that many nuts. Much easier to do and if I ever I get some original side plates I can then simply unbolt.

shaun · #**112** 07-02-11, 00:25

At last the hull is in the workshop, i have my cutting list for all the angle irons and repair patches for the hull plates, i have been a real rivet counter today and i need 230 rivets replacing. i think in 6 weeks the hull will be back to a sound unit ready to start the rebuild.
Im going for the real rivets, Graeme says its only a days work for his team to do that amount.

Maurice Donckers · #**113** 07-02-11, 08:22

anybody ever seen this cover behind the drivers seat , There was one in my carrier too .

RichardT10829 · #**114** 07-02-11, 08:46

I think i recall seeing this on Martyns Mk2...or may have been his Mk1 ? it was during his build when he did two carriers together. mine is missing but to be fair i couldnt see any evidence of it being there in the first instance.

that carrier looks in a sorry state mind Maurice

shaun · #**115** 07-02-11, 09:00

i have seen a few on both British and Canadian carriers, but never on MK2's . i may still have a pattern or copy about. There was not one on this carrier i am now doing, which surprised me so i wonder if they stopped fitting them in production.

Maurice Donckers · #**116** 07-02-11, 10:26

the picture is taken in a MKI , and in mine is also a MKI, it is held in place by 2 bolts wich also hold the bottom stearing bearing place to the hull.

RichardT10829 · #**117** 07-02-11, 14:48

You may be on to something there Shaun looking at the design of the peice i reckon it would be a nightmare for retaining water within the cam plate area where as without it a tap on the brakes would make the water run into the footwell i guess.

Maurice Donckers · #**118** 07-02-11, 14:55

But every piece of equipment wich rolls to the cam area will block the steering , like emty shells the odd tool etc. From the other side it is coverred up as well , so not easy to free cam once blocked.

kevin powles · #**119** 07-02-11, 16:19

Hi, I think this cover arrangement was fitted latter on to the mk2's, this is Malcolms very original carrier, with the canvas part of that cover still in place. Hi, Maurice have you the linkage cover yet?.

kevin

Lynn Eades · #**120** 07-02-11, 18:49

My MkIII had the remains of one, just like the one in your photo.
I'd suggest it is important to maintain steering. As stated, any bullet shell or stone etc could get in and jamb things up.