Mystery Shifter in M38A1CDN2

Mike Baker · #1 10-08-10, 22:58

Another mystery regarding my M38A1CDN2 (probable 67-07840):

As I have limited experience with these vehicles, I went up to the Ashton Garrison Museum this morning to take a look at their M38A1CDN2, and took note of a couple of significant differences that I cannot explain. Thus, if anyone can explain these, it would be appreciated:

1) Mine has four shifters - the one for the transmission, the two for 4wd, and another one in between them which has a yellow-painted knob on it. I will try to post a photo when I get home, and hopefully this weekend I can get underneath to find out what it's attached to. But if anyone has any ideas between now and then, please let me know.

2) In mine, the e-brake handle is the same as in most cars today - handle at the front and lever at the rear. The museum version is opposite this. Does anyone know which was standard and why it may have been changed? This could also be related to #1 above.

3) I have the standard rifle rack inside the passenger door, but I also have what appears to be another rifle rack in between the seats, which the museum version did not. Was this a standard feature?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

Scott Bentley · #2 10-08-10, 23:36

Mike,

Does your Jeep have a winch? PTO maybe?

Aftermarket Saturn Overdrives would also give you an extra shifter.

Scotty

Jon Skagfeld · #3 10-08-10, 23:44

Bracket between seats would have been for an SMG, therefore the Ansul 5# fire extinguisher would have been dash mounted.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #4 11-08-10, 01:24

The extra levers are for the winch and Power Take Off(PTO)..
Get the proper manuals from Grant Bowker..I believe this is the parts manual you require..Get the maintenance manual while you are at it..
You'll need both anyway..

#72: 594 pages CV-32 CDN. ORDNANCE CATALOGUE PARTS LIST FOR TRUCK, UTILITY, 1/4 TON, 4X4, M38CDN. TRUCK, UTILITY, 1/4 TON, 4X4, M38AICDN. (ILLUSTRATED) JULY 1957.(Includes PTO and winch)
Good luck with the new truck.

rob love · #5 11-08-10, 01:59

Without a photo, this is pure speculation. My money says it is a overdrive, which could require the relocation of the park brake handle. But the photos will say it all. You mentioned in another thread that this jeep had a crash pad installed. Sounds like it had a few civilian improvements, which makes me lean towards the overdrive vice a PTO.

Mike Baker · #6 11-08-10, 03:39

The winch and PTO - of course. I didn't think of the winch because it's one of the few things missing. And the extinguisher bracket is, in fact, on the dash so SMG bracket it is.

WRT the crash pad, I have a theory that it was actually a CF addition, albeit not one approved by Ottawa. As I also posted in a different thread, the windshield frame on this truck is light blue underneath the green and black camoflage. I suspect that something happened to the original windshield frame, and some enterprising V-tech got a CJ5 frame from the scrap yard to replace it. The pad has also been painted green (it's black underneath).

Many thanks for the answers - pics are attached below for 2nd and 3rd opinions...

rob love · #7 11-08-10, 05:41

I have never seen a PTO control mounted in the spot you show. Normally they are through the small plate that is just before the location of your park brake handle.

The winch brackets on the front of the vehicle are not stock either. And since there is green paint over your PTO lever, the vehicle has been painted since it's entry into civilian life. My money says the crash pad and windshield were add ons in it's civilian life. There were windshield frames available in the system right until disposal of the fleet, made by Mil-Quip (formerly Automobiles Rene Gagnon)

Mike Baker · #8 11-08-10, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

I have never seen a PTO control mounted in the spot you show. Normally they are through the small plate that is just before the location of your park brake handle.

The winch brackets on the front of the vehicle are not stock either. And since there is green paint over your PTO lever, the vehicle has been painted since it's entry into civilian life. My money says the crash pad and windshield were add ons in it's civilian life. There were windshield frames available in the system right until disposal of the fleet, made by Mil-Quip (formerly Automobiles Rene Gagnon)

In that case I'll be very interested to say what ICBC says about previous registered owners. This truck was disposed of by the CF in Chilliwack in February 1987, and has been in the back of a garage in Cobble Hill (on Vancouver Island) since at least 1988. The previous owner said that she and her husband picked it up in Vancouver (and definitely not Chilliwack), so it may have had an interesting year or so. Thanks for the info.

rob love · #9 11-08-10, 07:26

When you get a chance, show us what the extra lever attaches to. It should be a gearbox of some form on the back of the transfer case.

Scott Bentley · #10 11-08-10, 10:28

One other point that supports the PTO being put on post auction is that your ECC is for a regular 38A1 and not the "With Winch" version.

Scotty

Mike Baker · #11 12-08-10, 05:43

Got an opportunity to spend some time under the truck tonight, and discovered that the extra shifter is attached to (...drum roll...) a Warn Overdrive. Could also explain the reversed e-brake handle.

Pic attached. - in the first you can see the overdrive level behind those for the transfer case. In the 2nd is the overdrive itself, with the rusty rod for the e-brake in the foreground. The 3rd is an overhead shot of the e-brake handle.

rob love · #12 12-08-10, 06:56

I thought thats what would be there. And there is no way the army would put that on there. Maximum speed in those days for a SMP vehicle was 50, and the Willys could easily do 55 and even 60+ if the wind was going the right way.

Phil Waterman · #13 12-08-10, 14:42

Hi Mike

Around here the OD is what everybody wants for their Jeep little better road speed and a less frantic sounding engine.

But I have a second question, my `49 Lincoln has an overdrive and it needs both a mechanical engagement as well as an electrical one of the reasons is the car won't backup with the overdrive engaged (the electrical speed sensor and solenoid auto disengage the OD below 23 MPH) how does the Jeep OD work with only a mechanical engagement lever or does it have the speed sensors as well?

Cheers Phil

Mike Baker · #14 15-08-10, 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

But I have a second question, my `49 Lincoln has an overdrive and it needs both a mechanical engagement as well as an electrical one of the reasons is the car won't backup with the overdrive engaged (the electrical speed sensor and solenoid auto disengage the OD below 23 MPH) how does the Jeep OD work with only a mechanical engagement lever or does it have the speed sensors as well?

Speaking as a layman, I think a Warn OD just changes the gear ratios, so it can be used in any gear - even reverse. Is your Lincoln an early automatic? I think most automatics nowadays are like that too - OD only engages at highway speeds.

What I've read thus far on the Warn is that it is highly sought after by early CJ5 owners because it increases fuel efficiency, especially with mudder tires.

So the more I discover about my own truck, the more I am thinking that whomever bought it at auction in '87 started to convert it into a mud buggy but never finished. So while I would not have bought an OD to install myself (it isn't my daily driver), I will probably leave it on now that it's there. Few outside this forum would know that it isn't supposed to be there, anyway.

derk derin · #15 15-08-10, 06:21

I just caught this thread and my M38 CDN had an original winch installed and the picture shows you where the shifter would have been as Rob Love pointed out ahead of the parking brake (on A1 models);

The same winch and shifter I believe applies to the M38A1 versions also.
Regards,Derk.

Phil Waterman · #16 15-08-10, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Baker

Speaking as a layman, I think a Warn OD just changes the gear ratios, so it can be used in any gear - even reverse. Is your Lincoln an early automatic? I think most automatics nowadays are like that too - OD only engages at highway speeds.....

Few outside this forum would know that it isn't supposed to be there, anyway.

Hi Mike

My 49 Lincoln has a 3 speed manual transmission with a plains rear end.
The over drive is of planetary gear design which because of its design means the car is free wheeling if you take your foot of the gas, engine comes to idle great for fuel economy but means your brakes better be good.

Your right about no one what the extra lever is for.

Cheers Phil