Humber FV1600

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hi Warren,
Both Humber and Commer were part of the Rootes Group. It was a marketing decision to call them Humbers in the UK, based on Humber being a known name for military vehicles (eg.Humber Amoured Car). I expect it was a similar decision for Australia?? Maybe the Commer brand was recognised as more "Truck", with Humber more "Car".
A full restoration would be a serious undertaking, they are heavy and awkward to work on and takes a bit to get your head around the design. But this goes for all the British vehicles of that era, you should see the ones that did'nt go into production!
Mind you, there are advantages, you can talk while driving, and the ride is surprisingly good.
As for the much maligned Champ; buying one turned out to be the best thing I ever did. You just can't tell, can you.
Rich.

[fv1620]

[warren brown]

There you go - the RR collector was probably right!

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hi Clive,
Thats a new one on me. Do you have the book or just the pic of the front cover? Wanted to know if it was released for the civilian market (that did not eventuate) as it does not look like anything I have seen released for the War Office.
This is the first time I have seen anything mentioning the Commer connection apart from the data plate, in the FVRDE Chertsey exhibition '54 & '56 the one ton 4x4 was clearly shown as manufactured by Humber, while Commer did supply various versions of their own 3 ton 4x4.
Most Interesting,
Rich.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

This is the first time I have seen anything mentioning the Commer connection apart from the data plate, in the FVRDE Chertsey exhibition '54 & '56 the one ton 4x4 was clearly shown as manufactured by Humber,

Hi Rich,

Commer, Humber, etc., all came under the Rootes Group umbrella. It would appear that the FV1600 series built for the British Army, were badged as Humber, due to the success of the large range of wartime Humbers. In fact I understand that the vehicles were actually produced by Rootes at its plant in Maidstone, Kent, which was the Tilling Stevens works. Bart Vanderveen notes this in his book. It could be that exports, to Australia, were badged Commer because that name was already associated with trucks, where Humber was thought of as a car.

This sort of thing happened before, the Humber Armoured Car produced during the war, was actually built by Karrier, another commercial vehicle maker in the Rootes Group.

[fv1620]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

This is the first time I have seen anything mentioning the Commer connection apart from the data plate

Rich sorry for the delay, I never seem to get email notification of replies on MLU although my User CP is set to receive them.

Anyway it is the whole book I have. A number of interesting points.

250 - FV1601 Presumably the production figure for these Commers? The front cover is marked IB 250.

The front cover indicates 1953, so I first thought this was as a stop-gap before the publication of a User Handbook particularly in view of the Sgt who lays claim to the book.

But I have the provisional UHB WO Code No.17765 dated Feb 1953, so that was available early on. Although there is NO reference to "Humber" in it even the amended reprint still doesn't mention Humber.

The term Humber was in use in an AMTS Bordon publication dated July 1953.

The Commer book is A4 being an "Operation & Maintenance Manual" it contains details of servicing fluids which would be in the Servicing Schedule & not the UHB.

The layout of the books is quite different, most but not all of the illustrations are the same.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hi Clive,
Your raising more questions than answers I think.
My "Commer" is plated 1953, same as the book.
Was this manual provided in each truck? I believe the Australian order was 100, and as the only export order that would mean only 100 Commers, so the 250 may not have anything to do with numbers produced.
Australian Army used the Humber Operation/User manual.
Your Commer manual was obviously released to the British Army (10th Light Horse).
Seems logical that this may have been for the planned civilian market.
I think it only fair that this manual be reunited with a genuine Commer One Ton as soon as possible......(Now which door pocket does it go in?)
Rich.

[fv1620]

Rich. Ok that the Australian Army used the WO UHB. Maybe that's why there was no name printed on it. Whatever name was chosen it would confuse the soldiers of the other country?

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

I think it only fair that this manual be reunited with a genuine Commer One Ton as soon as possible.

Yes you're probably right. When were you thinking of shipping it back?