MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Softskin Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21-05-10, 20:20
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,864
Default

Here's an F15 4x2 in Antwerp. Although it was captured on film by a Canadian unit, it could of course also be a British truck. At least this could help to get the discussion on this subject going. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
F15 in Antwerp with what looks like a British 15-cwt body (as found on Bedford MW's and the like)?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21-05-10, 21:07
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,864
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
Here's an F15 4x2 in Antwerp. Although it was captured on film by a Canadian unit, it could of course also be a British truck. At least this could help to get the discussion on this subject going. . .
. . . as this picture shows the same type of CMP in May 1945. This definitely is a Canadian Army truck as only (a) Canadian unit(s) liberated my home town.

Hillegom bevrijd CMP.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21-05-10, 22:44
David_Hayward (RIP)'s Avatar
David_Hayward (RIP) David_Hayward (RIP) is offline
former Resident Historian
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The New Forest, England
Posts: 3,841
Default Thanks

Quote:
our resident Historian


That's made my day!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21-05-10, 23:04
David_Hayward (RIP)'s Avatar
David_Hayward (RIP) David_Hayward (RIP) is offline
former Resident Historian
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The New Forest, England
Posts: 3,841
Default Simple answers

This is in fact a very interesting and useful query. The answers are:

1. Ford F.15 and Chevrolet C.15 trucks were the first off the assembly lines at Southampton May 1940. 4x4 15-cwt versions followed some months later.
2. C.8 and presumably F.8 production commenced shortly after the 4x2 15-cwt trucks.
3. C.8 production at Oshawa, and I am guessing F.8 production at Windsor, terminated in 'Late 1941', in favour of 4x4 variants.
4. There is no evidence yet as to when 4x2 15-cwt production ended but I am sure that Dr Gregg suggested that they were 'obsolete' in Canadian service by 1944. I can find no record in my database of Canadian 4x2 trucks in 1943 Model Year.
5. The last known 4x2 truck that I know of was a C.15 assembled on November 16th 1943. That was to British order, S/M 6050 which was it seems the last GM order for 4x2 trucks.

However, I am not sure whether the F.602S and F.602L 4x2 lorries were used by the Canadians....they were of course 4x2 CMPs!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22-05-10, 00:52
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shouting at clouds
Posts: 3,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
. . . as this picture shows the same type of CMP in May 1945. This definitely is a Canadian Army truck as only (a) Canadian unit(s) liberated my home town.
Hanno, this business of studying old trucks has a different emotional impact when you put it that way. Which regiment(s)?
__________________
Terry Warner

- 74-????? M151A2
- 70-08876 M38A1
- 53-71233 M100CDN trailer

Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22-05-10, 05:32
George McKenzie George McKenzie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Northern Alberta CA
Posts: 451
Default did candian army use 4x2 CMPs

I have an original Department of National Defences instruction book. Fifth Edition , printed July 1941 by General Motors of Canada for the, 8CWT 4x2,15CWT4x2, 15CWT 4x4,30CWT4x4,3TON4x4 ,FA GUN Tractor 4x4.Would this mean they usde the 8CWT 4x2 CMPs inthe war ?
__________________
George is hooked on OD
5 window DT969
8 ton Fruehauf trailer
M2A1Halftrack ,CMP #11 F15A1 #13 F15A1
RAF Fordson Tractor, 42 WLC HD
No.2MK11 CT267514 center CB24713 bottom hull25701 ,No.2 MK2 parts
MK1 10128 ,(2) MK1 ,Parts Hull9305 .Hull 10407
Hull plate # 7250 all have walk plate on back steps
1917 Patent modle amphibious army tank
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22-05-10, 10:30
David_Hayward (RIP)'s Avatar
David_Hayward (RIP) David_Hayward (RIP) is offline
former Resident Historian
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The New Forest, England
Posts: 3,841
Default C.8

Both C.8 and F.8 initially to my knowledge.

There is of course a photo of a F[?].15 in Dr Gregg's book when it mentions that they were obsolete.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22-05-10, 14:13
John McGillivray's Avatar
John McGillivray John McGillivray is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Quebec
Posts: 1,089
Default

When the 5th Cdn Armoured Division was deployed to Italy in late 1943, it was equipped with old British wheeled vehicles. Besides being in very poor condition, many of the vehicles were 4x2s. It is most likely that some of them found their way to NWE when 1st Cdn Corps moved there in March 1945.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13-10-10, 10:39
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,864
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Hayward View Post
There is of course a photo of a F[?].15 in Dr Gregg's book when it mentions that they were obsolete.
Ah yes, that one - see quote from CMPs first used in action: June 1940, France below. While its census number CZ 4204396 denotes overseas service, this picture was most likely taken in the UK (possibly at Borden, Hampshire). But according to the vehicle data book which was reproduced in Gregg's book, by 1944 4x2 trucks were no longer used in operatonal commands, but limited numbers were used in the UK as general purpose load carrier for supplies and stores by CRU or other base units.

Hanno

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
David, I think this could even be an actual example of that batch. The countryside in the background looks like it could be in the UK, but there are not enough clues to be sure of that.

However, its census number CZ 4204396 implies overseas service. Do have have a list of the census numbers that were applied by the CMD?

Also note that the paintwork is weathered (especially on the roof) and the left front fender is somewhat battered. So it must have been in use for some time, possibly as a runabout / barracks hack. A truck looking like this when assigned to an active unit would certainly not pass inspection by the RSM.
F15-Cab11-CZ4204396.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15-10-10, 15:51
gordon's Avatar
gordon gordon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 707
Default Obvious missing factor here.

Reading through the scheduling of the 4 x 2 and 4 x 4 changeover above, it would seem to me that they concentrated on 4 x 4 CMPs from 1942 on because of the huge quantities of 4x2 Dodge trucks, D15 and D60, that they had available from that point. It would be relatively easy to concentrate production of 4 x 4s as Chev and Ford, and leave Dodge to churn out all the 4 x 2's.

In fact Canadian Dodge production pretty much went the other way, starting with the 4 x 4 D8A, and swapping over to 4 x 2 D15 and D60 types at around the same time the Chev and Ford production changed.
__________________
Gordon, in Scotland
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016