Canadain Airborne Regiment Iltis, need opinions and help

Matthew Reid · #1 02-04-10, 09:22

Hello All

I picked up what I was planning to being a parts Iltis this past winter.
I got it dirt cheap (almost free) and was planning on using what few parts that were on it for spares. I aquired it from an idvidual who was using it as a static obstical on a Paintball/Airsoft course. It is little more than a rolling chassis, Body, hood, roll bar, grill, steering coloum, and enough suspension parts to keep the tires mounted.

When I had Scotty and Craig search the CFR history It came back as having spent all but the first few months of it's life with the Canadain Airborne until the regiment was disbanded.
It was then sent to 3rd Battalion of the Royal Canadian Regiment (where a good chunk of the Airborne troops went). It stayed with 3 RCR till May 03 when it was prepped for shipment to Afghanistan, as best as can be gussed for what ever reason it was never sent, It hung around CFB Petawawa for a year as an Area support unit. It was then sent to the Land Force Western Area Training Centre (CFB Wainwright) and disposed of from there as scrap/salvage.
It is CFR 87423 (history in the CFR request section)

Well upon finding out that it was with the Airborne and obviusly had been deployed. (The Unit has multiple layers of paint including possibly 2 coats of white ,one for sure). Stripping it for what useable parts are left on it and then scrapping the rest did not just sit right with me after finding out the history of the unit.

So I have decided to restore the unit to as it would have been in Somalia. I assume the last coat of white paint was for this deployment.

SO here comes the questions and my quanderies.

The units body is very very rough , large dents, several serious bends severe structural rust, Surprisinghly it looks not bad but there is deep rooted rust in structural areas and it has several structrual failures in main body supports (cracking) and some dumb ass drove bobcat forks through the back side. of the body.

The unit was fitted at one time with an Air drop plate ( the marks are on it's frame from one). So it obviusly was air dropped in it's life time and that would explain the structual body cracking. The frame appears to be solid with no cracks found as yet.

I also have an 84 Iltis CFR 86091 (History in the CFR request section) with a pretty solid tub (basically no rust and little to no body damage) that I Plan on restoring with as many NOS parts as I can find including a NOS body tub. The unit has been restored and was in a museum, (where the perviuos owner aquired it from). It looks great but has the wrong paint job mechanically it is average this unit has well over 100K Km's on it currently it is getting new shocks brakes trunions ball joints so I can drive it till it is stripped apart. This unit will go back to as delivered to the CF in 1984 after restoration.

Iam planning on using the 84's Body tub and mechanicals to restore/rebuild the Airborne Iltis.

Now for my questions.

Should I try to fix the Airborne Iltis's body tub or will swapping the tub off the 84 on to it detroy it 's history/authenticity.
The orginal tub could be fixed but there would not be much left of the original tub after repaired any way.

Does any one have any pictures of CF Iltis's in service in Somalia in UN paint. I have searched and searched and come up with nothing. I would like some idea how to outfit/and paint the unit.

Does any one know what the tac signs looked like on Airbone Vehicles ?

The unit is going to be painted in UN white with UN markings as it would have been in Somalia. Now will there be any issues driving a unit painted as such? I do not think anyone has restored an Iltis to UN paint and markings as of yet so I have no idea what the Legal ramifications may be.

As always any help is greatly appreciated.

Matthew

maple_leaf_eh · #2 02-04-10, 16:45

Good find! The provenance of any collectible vehicle is very important. Any inferences what part of the CAR had it? TOW, ambulance, recce? As an aside, its rough condition may have been the result of years of 'drive it like you stole it' usage.

Where are you located? I was looking at NOS Iltis parts at a surplus yard a little while ago. He very likely has exactly what you need, including frames, bodies and panels.

Paint it whatever colour you want. There is absolutely nothing in the Highway Traffic Act that refers to what a registered vehicle looks like - just as long as it has brakes, lights, horn, wipers, defrosters, etc. Seat belts may even be optional depending on how the rules are read.

The tac sign for Airborne is a rectangle with the formation size on the top, the name on the right and the interior of the rectangle will be crossed bandoliers with a gull wings indicator.

Dan Sicotte · #3 02-04-10, 18:48

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I was with service comando Airborne regiment in Somalia, and we had no iltis on that deployment. Only Diesel vehicles were sent.
Dan Sicotte

Matthew Reid · #4 02-04-10, 21:57

Terry I'm in Edmonton. I hve no shortage of acsses to NOS parts here in Edmonton.
Thanks for the Info on the Tac sign.

Thanks for the info Dan you did not burst my bubble at all. I just want to be able to pin down the where this unit would/could have possibly been deployed to requireing the white UN paint.
Since you did serve with the Airborne. Where in the life span of this Iltis could it have been deployed with Airborne requiring White paint.

The CIN for the all the early work orders indicate the 3rd RCR, Is there any possibilty it was sent to Cyprus? Or was it possibly prepped for the cancelled UN mission MINURSO in the Western Sahara.

Matthew

I sanded paint down again to expose the white. There is only one coat and it appears to have been laid over the factory delivered paint so it was early in it's life it was painted UN white. There was a 2 colour camo painted on top of the UN white. As where the Fuel filler neck has been banged the paint has been knocked off and the white is clearly under a layer a black.

The layer of whit

Dan Sicotte · #5 03-04-10, 02:19

There are limitless possibilities as to where that vehicle went. There is a long standing tradition of borrowing vehicles for overseas missions. It could have been in Bosnia, Cyprus, Golan, Rwanda, etc. It may have been issued to a mission, and sent back to the Airborne without a jumper ever stepping foot in it.

Good luck with the hunt.
Dan

maple_leaf_eh · #6 03-04-10, 04:36

In 1991 we had Itlises from SSF HQ&Sigs with us in Kuwait City in CANFORME EOD Tp. They were white on green on white on green. Three years earlier, those same vehicles had been used by a composite Signals Regiment that deployed between Saddam's army and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard in 1988. Funny to think that for a short while, it was possible for a UN military force to operate freely and unencumbered in both countries. When the units were returned to Canada, a sausage machine reverted white kit to green. In fall 1990 the One Canadian Field Hospital was stood up, and enough of the other essential fighting and support parts build around them.

T. Alcorn · #7 04-04-10, 23:42

Let me know if you get tired of her. That's a piece of history I'd love to own.

Jon Skagfeld · #8 05-04-10, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewq4b

Terry I'm in Edmonton. I hve no shortage of acsses to NOS parts here in Edmonton.
Thanks for the Info on the Tac sign.

Thanks for the info Dan you did not burst my bubble at all. I just want to be able to pin down the where this unit would/could have possibly been deployed to requireing the white UN paint.
Since you did serve with the Airborne. Where in the life span of this Iltis could it have been deployed with Airborne requiring White paint.

The CIN for the all the early work orders indicate the 3rd RCR, Is there any possibilty it was sent to Cyprus? Or was it possibly prepped for the cancelled UN mission MINURSO in the Western Sahara.

Matthew

I sanded paint down again to expose the white. There is only one coat and it appears to have been laid over the factory delivered paint so it was early in it's life it was painted UN white. There was a 2 colour camo painted on top of the UN white. As where the Fuel filler neck has been banged the paint has been knocked off and the white is clearly under a layer a black.

The layer of whit

Hmmm...painted white for intended deployment to Chad, perhaps?

Rpoolie · #9 07-04-10, 14:50

Check kijiji.ca, Ottawa region, Search Iltis
There is someone selling an iltis painted up in UN white and there are pics to view.
Hope this helps.

Young_Law · #10 17-05-10, 23:08

In the spirit of Airborne Iltis', while working at the Para Centre I took some pictures of the Aerial Delivery Iltis' which are still used as training aids. If my dad ever emails me the pictures I'll upload them here.

rob love · #11 18-05-10, 00:25

We painted the odd Iltis white with the UN markings for use in city parades. If the color does not coincide with the recorded use of the vehicle it is possible you may have had one of these. Typically, this was done before or after a unit's deployment to Cypress or wherever.

There were also some units which would apply white for winter cam. It was suppose to be the removeable paint (yeah right) but I had seen some units use regular paint and then repaint again in the spring. Not common mind you.

Matthew Reid · #12 18-05-10, 10:35

Thanks Young I would appreciate that.
This Unit was air dropped I do not doubt that It had the Air drop skid plate attached at one time and the body structure is fractured in several places around and near the body mount locations and some of the main body structure cross members are fractured as well leading me to believe it was put under pretty severe stresses at one time. But the body is not buckled by the front windshield so I doubt it was from being jumped. The Body structure damage is consistent with a hard landing from an air drop.

This Unit was given a very thorough White paint job even the floors (seats must have been removed) and roll bar were done in white the only part of the interior that was not painted white is the dash and the hand brake.
The White Paint was done very early on in it's life. It was applied directly on top of the factory paint and the factory paint was not scuffed up at all in preparation for the white paint. The paint now is coming off in fair big sheets in several places down to the white and the original factory paint, the original factory paint is as good as the day it left the factory. Having the interior painted white makes me think me it might have been a winter camo paint job.

Any one have any more input on why the interior would have been painted white?

Matthew

Young_Law · #13 19-05-10, 22:42

Here are the pics of the Iltis and M101.

Trailer: