2010 at the Hammond Barn

[Grant Bowker]

The rebuild on the door frames started last year as an experiment to see if Bob and assistants could repair/rebuild the rusted bottoms of 11 cab door frames since it's tough to find NOS ones without making a road trip to the Netherlands. The first one worked out quite well using sheet metal bent into a shallow channel form. The original channel had an extra fold on one face that is intended to fold the outer door skin around. Bob is planning to make the skin anchor part as a separate piece and weld it onto the channel as we weren't sure we'd be able to bend the combined section as easily as the simple channel. In hindsight, it might well have been made to work as a single piece given the ease of bending the simple channel (once the flanges were heated). Bob was content with the result of last year's frame (shown hanging on the chair) so we went to work on the matching frame for the second door. Bending the curve was easy, so was notching and bending the corners. Then we noticed that the shop had only bent one channel to the size Bob had asked for and that that channel had been used last year. Bob was depressed thinking that he'd have to wait another week while he got a new one bent up. I was more optimistic and started pounding on the channel to reduce the oversize. A bit later, after hammering, squeezing in the vice and torquing with an adjustable wrench the new part seemed to be either bent or straight where appropriate and match the profile of the original frame so Bob zapped it in place and I ground down the welds. The final photo shows Bob admiring the frame. We still need to add the reinforcement plate at the bottom of the second door, add the reinforcing channel to box the frame at the point the restraining strap had distorted the frame and add the skin securing flanges. The bottom of the second frame looks distorted in the photo but didn't seem to be bent when working on it. This will be checked and if needed fixed. If a small hammer applied gently won't fix it, a larger hammer will be tried, if that fails, heat it and beat it.

[Phil Waterman]

Looks like good detailed work. Are you going to glue or spot weld the skins on? Remember if you are going to spot weld don't paint steel until after you have bent the skin on an welded it, do degrease all the steel first. I then poured paint into the door thinned down so it would run into the seam and kept rotating the door unit the paint was well worked into the seam. (tape up any holes). When re-skinning or stopping the rust Pat 13 doors I remove the latch assemble tape up the holes and pour in a quart of POR-15, tape the last hole and just keep rotating door in all directions until I'm pretty sure to have actually covered all the interior. Then drain and strain the excess paint, and do the next door.

Cheers Phil

[Gordon Yeo]

The Hammond Tin Bashers.

Guys! Want too knock off two frames for my #12 Cab while your in the mood?

Gord

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Gord

Bring your doors to Acton...... let me have a look..... it's a little intimidating to do your doors when I have seen some of the tin bashing you have done....

.....almost like Michael Angelo ordering a paint by number kit.... I will repair the frame and you can install a perfectly straight skin.....


....but I am willing to give it a try.

Bob

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Phil

The doors I am working on are actually my practice doors..... they come from the cab 12 that I refer to as "Ted's truck"..... my cab 11 doors are not as bad but will need redoing also. Turns out my first pair of doors will probably look very good..... it just takes time.

I also have a very miticulous and patient assistant in Grant.... he will not let me get away with short cuts.

I have the spot welder and now know how to use it.... I also have the special sheet metal glue/epoxy and the required gun...... and I am wavering.

WE have done so well so far with traditional heat, weld, grind, etc. I am now unsure what process I will use for the skin.

Being practice doors..... I may go ahead with the glue process..... may have to check ambient room temperature requirement or delay until Spring.

I may try the spot welder for the cab 11 original doors ... who knows....

Presently the doors have been heavily sandblasted and threated with Phosporic acid.... nice gray blush. My ppans are along your line of thinking...glue or spot weld I will sloosh POR 15 on the inside of the doors and have it flow into every crack possible...... spray with a binder coat then OD.

I have the advantage on the cab 11/12 door of having a removable inner skin so I can literally waterproof the doors while the lock is still out.....

I just recently found a stash of flat head...pan head..slot type screws for the skin of the door......

I welcome any comments...suggestions on the finish process...glue or spot weld.

I had a discussion with a bodyman a while back..... he tells me that the glue joint is so resistant that when they patch up panels that are supposed to crush to absorb impact that they are instrcuted to use no more than a half inch overlap or the panels that are suppposed to deform in an accident will deform and crush properly.

He also mentioned that set time is flexible based on ambient temp. and setting can be speeded up in body shop by using heat lamps.

It would certainly make sense for reskinning the back of the cab where I have to remove the stiffenning ribs and re-install on the new skin..... gluing would not risk warping the new skin.......

Ever wonder why we are spending $$ and time fixing a truck door that survived, on its own, nearly 70 years even though it was designed to last just a few years..... and survived even though the design was far from perfect and really had a lot of flaws that encouraged trapping moisture....

Once finished our trucks should last at least 120 years..... and that is just half life.

Boob

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Hi Phil

The doors I am working on are actually my practice doors..... they come from the cab 12 that I refer to as "Ted's truck"..... my cab 11 doors are not as bad but will need redoing also. Turns out my first pair of doors will probably look very good..... it just takes time.

I also have a very miticulous and patient assistant in Grant.... he will not let me get away with short cuts.

I have the spot welder and now know how to use it.... I also have the special sheet metal glue/epoxy and the required gun...... and I am wavering.

WE have done so well so far with traditional heat, weld, grind, etc. I am now unsure what process I will use for the skin.

Being practice doors..... I may go ahead with the glue process..... may have to check ambient room temperature requirement or delay until Spring.

I may try the spot welder for the cab 11 original doors ... who knows....

Presently the doors have been heavily sandblasted and threated with Phosporic acid.... nice gray blush. My ppans are along your line of thinking...glue or spot weld I will sloosh POR 15 on the inside of the doors and have it flow into every crack possible...... spray with a binder coat then OD.

I have the advantage on the cab 11/12 door of having a removable inner skin so I can literally waterproof the doors while the lock is still out.....

I just recently found a stash of flat head...pan head..slot type screws for the skin of the door......

I welcome any comments...suggestions on the finish process...glue or spot weld.

I had a discussion with a bodyman a while back..... he tells me that the glue joint is so resistant that when they patch up panels that are supposed to crush to absorb impact that they are instrcuted to use no more than a half inch overlap or the panels that are suppposed to deform in an accident will deform and crush properly.

He also mentioned that set time is flexible based on ambient temp. and setting can be speeded up in body shop by using heat lamps.

It would certainly make sense for reskinning the back of the cab where I have to remove the stiffenning ribs and re-install on the new skin..... gluing would not risk warping the new skin.......

Ever wonder why we are spending $$ and time fixing a truck door that survived, on its own, nearly 70 years even though it was designed to last just a few years..... and survived even though the design was far from perfect and really had a lot of flaws that encouraged trapping moisture....

Once finished our trucks should last at least 120 years..... and that is just half life.

Boob

Bob..
To keep your skin from warping when welding,clamp it to the frame and spot weld it ,in a fashion ,like torquing head bolts..once it it tacks straight on the frame skip weld (Short runs..3/8"-1/2") using the same location varying technique , leaving time for the metal to cool....
Don't over weld your skin to the frame..enough to keep it there and from rattling..and don't worry about the "Crush"absorbing safety factor..you won't need it if you hit anything head on..The steering column will make you forget all about the fancy welding on the door skin..

[Gordon Yeo]

Bob
I was sure you would say I don't need any help with door frames and too bugger off. We'll have too have a chat again this year at Acton.

I used the bonding adhesive on the car fenders and floor pans and was quite pleased with the results. It takes time and quite a few clamps to prepare and fit things to be bonded, thats about it for the down side. Bonding eliminates the heat distortion and metal clean up from a mig, I don't have the luxury of a spot welder. The bonding adhesive is easy to apply and work with and is not as toxic as POR in a closed work area ( no disrespect intended to POR , I've used it too). It also leaves a seal between the two layers of steel that is water proof. That is a huge bonus as that is usually where rust starts out off.

The adhesive is expensive, but I found it easier and quicker to work with than welding, with a better finished product.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Alex, if you hit a modern vehicle with a CMP, it's the one that would be doing the crush absorbing anyway.