CMP fluids question ..........

[BCBlitz]

HI All

Well Im currious if any of you can chime in on the fluids issue for my F15A flathead V8 I dont have the manual yet so currious as to what to use in all the areas on the truck.

engine oil ? ........ 30WT detergent ? or NON detergent ? or a more modern multigrade like 10/30 ? the engine is a early 50's Mercury flathead not the OEM engine Im told.

gear oil for trans, axles and transfer case .... reg 80/90 gear oil ?

brake fluid ........ reg DOT 3 or do we have to use silicone brake fluid like the USA trucks ?, something to do with attacking rubber, any thoughts ?, Ill be bleeding the whole system so if silicon is better that would be the time to change over.

any other help would be great as as soon as the weather warms up and the snow melts Ill be looking at getting it all changed .

Thanks all have a OD / Khaki kind of day

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by BCBlitz

HI All

Well Im currious if any of you can chime in on the fluids issue for my F15A flathead V8 I dont have the manual yet so currious as to what to use in all the areas on the truck.

Here's a scan from my Ford manual for "Special Pattern vehicles" showing all the service lubricants, both DND specification number and civilian equivalent. If you want to send me your email address, I can send you a much higher resolution pic. Hope this info helps, Derek.

[Bob Carriere]

HI Terry

If you are looking for reproductions of the various Ford manuals contact Grant Bowker on MLU he now has the full collection of manuals from Alex Blair.

Sounds like you will be getting down and dirty soon.....

BooBee

[Gunner]

Hi Terry:

I have silicone in the brake system of both my 43 F60S Light Anti Aircraft Tractor (LAAT) and my 41 GMC CCKW and am very happy with them. Unlike several other trucks in the collection they never need bleeding. Many other of our beasts need bleeding every few months and one is a downright fluid hog who needs a bleed every month. When it is rebuilt shortly, its getting silicone!

There are, however, many traps and pitfalls in switching over. I strongly recommend you do a search on this and other forums to get an idea of whats involved... basically you will be replacing most of the rubber parts of the system before you add the silicone.

Rob Love, who posts here frequently, is a very talented ex-military mechanic and enthusiast. He has vast experience with silicone brake fluid and can set you in the right direction.

Good luck! Mike

[cantankrs]

I'm interested in where this silicone info is going - perhaps it should have its own thread in the restoration forum? A couple of years ago I enquired with a local, very experienced brake man, about whether I should bite the bullet and switch a light crane I have over to silicone brake fluid while I was overhauling the brake system and he flat out said don't touch the stuff. He wouldn't elaborate and seemed to have no love for it. I don't think he was trying to con me in any way. I just don't know whether he was warning me off due to cost, or some other reasons. Prior to that everything I'd heard said it was the go for restored vehicles.

Regards

Alex

[Phil Waterman]

Alex- your point is well taken, this topic does deserve detail treatment and it has been discussed in the past below are some of the threads. Unfortunately the MLU search feature works fine and other times it gets finicky. Today for example I typed in silicone brake fluid and got a number of responses, and then I typed in just silicone and got more. Yesterday I tried the same searches and got nothing. So if you get no hits on a search try again later.

Now back to silicone brake fluid here are some of the threads:
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ne+brake+fluid
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ne+brake+fluid
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ne+brake+fluid
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ne+brake+fluid

Several good points have been made in the past:

The first silicone brake fluids that came out had real problems and many providers/manufactures of master cylinders, brake cylinders, sleeving would not warranty there products if silicone was used.

If you are completely redoing a brake system (replacing or rebuilding all the parts) going over to modern silicone brake fluid should not be a problem and probably will give the advantages of silicone. But DO NOT use any NOS rubber parts, lines, cups or boots there maybe a compatibility problem. Be sure to use all new stock rubber parts from a known major brand. (This is probably a good idea know matter what fluid you use.)

The last point that has been made in the past discussions is that to change over, you really need to be sure that you get all of the old fluid and more importantly the dirt out of the system.

Personally - I think that one of the major maintenance problems with CMP brakes is us the users. We have all been spoiled by self adjusting brakes. Because the shoes/pads automatically adjust on our modern trucks and cars they have bigger brake fluid reservoirs because they are checked so infrequently. CMPs with there manual adjusting brakes need to be adjusted by the book. When properly adjusted the master cylinder is only moving a small amount to apply the brakes, which means there is very little air being drawn in and out through the vent on the filler cap thus less moisture is drawn into the system. When properly adjusted the brake shoes on a CMP do not have to move very much to fully apply. (This assumes that the drums are not oval shaped and shoes are not worn out)

Over the years I have been impressed with the braking power on HUP and on the C60, the HUP had has no booster while my C60S and C60L both have brake boosters. Compared to some of the US military trucks I've driven CMPs have bloody great brakes. (This however could be a maintenance issue) But when you look at the brakes on a 3/4 Dodge and compare it to a HUP you sort of wonder what was Dodge thinking.

One finial point – Alex I’m willing to bet that your friendly brake experts feelings about silicon brake fluid was centered around the rubber parts compatibility issue and the differences in tolerances between modern systems designed for silicon and those systems designed for regular DOT 3. Which is a very good point to consider.

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Hi,
Running 10W30 or synthetic oil in a flathead is fine Ford says 10W, 20W, or 30W depending on temperature and some guy's said in summer use 20W50
So i guess that i got whit 10w30 for now is in spécial a Canadian tire this week
If any one runing a V8 Flathead could hellp
PS no funny joke for the Chevy guy (Ottawa Area)

[Bob Carriere]

Oil being the life line of your engine jokes would not be appropriate,

A lot has been written in the past 18 months in USA car club publications to that effect.

It seems that modern oil is really meant for modern engine and the chemical formulationhas changed. A number of car/truck nuts have noticed that particualrly with old engines being totally rebuilt they had trouble with burning lifters, rings not seating properly, etc ... to the point of accelerated wear or total breakdown.

The solution it seems is to use either diesel engine oil or high mileage oil sold for worn engines. These two oils seem to have retained some of the old formulation and include a higher zinc content and other elements that will soften some of the pounding.

Phil Waterman has some very interesting articles on the subject.

I currently have synthetic gas engine oil in my 261 Chev and will be changing for SHell Rotella 15 w / 40 diesel engine oil....... and it will actually save me money on the purchase.

In your case, if you switch to higly fluid synthetic engine oil in your Ford, you may want to check for leaks.

BooBee

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Oil being the life line of your engine jokes would not be appropriate,
.....
The solution it seems is to use either diesel engine oil or high mileage oil sold for worn engines. These two oils seem to have retained some of the old formulation and include a higher zinc content and other elements that will soften some of the pounding.

Phil Waterman has some very interesting articles on the subject.

...

BooBee

Hi Bob

I'll try and collect up the articles and post them week. When I do I'll post the links here.

Also got some information on temperature readings in various CMP components after hammering the truck around up hill and down and on the interstate. Which I will post.

Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Phil

Just changed the oil on my truck....... filled with Rotella Diesel 15W 40.....

Glad I did..... the oil that was in had turned black like a diesel engine from over rich mixture...... now after 3 carburator ti si idling very well at low RPM with out the constant use of the choke... I have no idea what went wrong with the other carbs...... guest I will tear them down and reassemble carefully with new kits.....

Can you tell me.... where is the original drain plug on an original 216 oil pan..... ??

Mine on the 261 is directly above the front axle gear cluster..... I had to hold a funnel in one hand the whole time while draining the pan....

Note to anyone installing a 261 or 235 make sure you install a new drain plug on bottom left hand side when facing the front.... under the passenger side..

My crank case holds 8.5 liters with the two PH 8 screw on filters.....

With the vertical filter mount it is very convenient to prefill the filters before installing.

Could not get the temp to go over 150 on a new mechanical temp guage even after driving for 30 minutes across the back field.......

I now drive with the steam valve open all the time..... maybe that keeps it cooler....... if I drive for a while with the valve closed..... when you open it a whole bunch of air/bubbles can be seen in the clear vinyl tubing currently and temporarily in place.....

Cheers

Bob

.....and the rear wheels fling mud quite decoratively in 2 wheel drive....

[hrpearce]

Bob the drain plug is centre rear of sump
See Fig. 1 Section K of MB-C1