CMPs in Swiss Army use

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's a period picture of a Ford F60S in Swiss Army service. Looks like they fitted a cargo body of their own design.

Picture source: http://www.mmvsgogr.ch/

[gordon]

Indeed they did.

Appartently the Swiss Army did a special body for all their large vehicles so they could be driven or railled through the standard tunnel size.

Look at that body - same height but narrower and with rounded top - perfect cross-section for tunnel work... 8~)

Gordon

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by gordon
Appartently the Swiss Army did a special body for all their large vehicles so they could be driven or railled through the standard tunnel size.

Gosh, and then they say the Germans are well known for their gründlichkeit....

H.

[Bill Murray]

Hi Guys:
I have two Swiss Army Data Books for vehicles dated 1960 and 1971.
The Ford was still on duty in 1960 as were a range of Dodge 3/4 tonners and a number of heavier vehicles.

In the 1970 edition the GMC 2 1/2 tonner was still there as were Kenworth and Ward La France wreckers.

The photos are pretty bad so I will not post them and aside from the GMC, the bodies etc. seem to be ex US.

Just a little postscript.
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's a pic I got from Terry Johns, showing an ex-Swiss Army F60S imported into the USA. Looks like it had a modified Derrick body. Note the rounded top bows to maximise internal space, but still fitting the train tunnel contours.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another pic from Terry Johns showing another ex-Swiss Army F60S imported into the USA. This one seems to have a standard GS body.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

See http://www.mmgz.ch/Oldtimer/Fahrzeuge.htm

Fz-Marke Ford
Fz-Typ Kanada
Mil Lastw gl 2t 4x4
Jahrgang 1944
Hubraum 3922
Zylinder V8
PS 96
V max km/h 55
Treibstoff Benzin

Besonderes:
Gaspedal zwischen Brems- und Kupplungspedal
Pluspol an Masse
Schraubtriebanlasser Bendix

[zemsi]

... and here's another one. She is based at the Armeemotorfahrzeugpark Burgdorf (Army Motor Park). They store quite some old trucks etc. Unfortunately, it's not open to the public

Source

[zemsi]

... I took this pic in 2004 at Convoy to Remember in Birmenstorf, Switzerland. This one was based in the French part of Switzerland, but I haven't seen her since.

[zemsi]

... looks like the Blitz from the thread before is still around in Switzerland. There was a static military show in the middle of September in Switzerland. More pics at picasa: GMC DUKW, T16, Weasel, Praga Tank. Dodges, GMCs etc.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by zemsi

More pics at picasa: GMC DUKW, T16, Weasel, Praga Tank. Dodges, GMCs etc.

Thanks! Those pictures include one of the owner: "Alain Cuendet en démonstration sur son Ford Canada"

[zemsi]

... I just found better pics of the Blitz in Hanno's start thread.

They were taken on June 16, 2006, in Cham, Switzerland. Bloody hell, I don't know why I missed this show

It's believed to be the last surviving Blitz in typical Swiss configuration.

Source

[zemsi]

... here's a post-war image

Source

[serge]

Hello

I would like to know the kind and the aim of the body of the truck. At first glance, the truck seems to be a F 60S but the body of F60S as gun tractor are very different.

regards

[zemsi]

According to swissmotor.ch the used Blitzes were F-60 S-01 and F-60-II BIW. I've got no clue what types they are. The Swiss army changed the front axle so that the steering angle was much shorter (8750mm to 10400mm), and the width was wider.

The original payload was 3 tonnes, but reduced to just 2 tonnes. The Blitzes were mainly used for towing the 10,5cm howitzers and as troop movers (2+15 seats), because the special designed Saurer M4 was only available in small numbers.

They were out of service after 1966.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by zemsi

According to swissmotor.ch the used Blitzes were F-60 S-01 and F-60-II BIW. I've got no clue what types they are. The Swiss army changed the front axle so that the steering angle was much shorter (8750mm to 10400mm), and the width was wider.

Chris,

I read the text (quoted below) as two type of front axles were found to be fitted, not that they were changed.
This could be explained by the fact that the Swiss were most likely supplied with a mixture of F60S and F30 trucks. Both had a 134 1/4" wheelbase. The first had a 3-ton rating and heavy axles (with 6" Front Axle Knuckles) and drive line components, while the F30 was rated at 1.5-tons and had lighter axles (with 4 7/8" Front Axle Knuckles) and drive line components.

I cannot explain the differences in transfer cases and winches, though. But someone on this forum will, surely.

HTH,
Hanno

Es gab zwei Typen, F-60 S-01 und F-60-II BIW. Die beiden Ausführungen hatten verschiedene Vorderachsen, mit kleinen Achsköpfen (Durchmesser 124 mm), oder grösseren (Durchmesser 175 mm). Die Achse mit den grösseren Achsköpfen ergab eine breitere Spur, aber einen besseren Radeinschlag und somit einen kleineren Lenkradius, 8750 mm zu 10400 mm. Ausserdem gab es einzelne Fahrzeuge mit einem kleineren Zwischengetriebe, das die Zuschaltung des Vorderradantriebes nur im Geländegang zuliess, im Gegensatz zum grossen Zwischengetriebe, das analog dem Jeep die Verwendung des Vierradantriebs im Strassen- und im Geländegang ermöglichte.

Der Unterschied war bei Fahrzeugen mit Seilwinde noch markanter, da dort die Seilwinde beim kleinen Zwischengetriebe durch einen weiteren (dritten) Schalthebel betätigt werden musste, während beim grossen Zwischengetriebe sowohl Vierradantrieb, Geländegang und Seilwinde mit einem Hebel geschaltet werden konnte. Die Nutzlast betrug ursprünglich drei Tonnen, in der Schweizer Armee wurde sie auf zwei Tonnen festgelegt.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some more period pictures found here.

H.

[zemsi]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Some more period pictures found here.

... Hanno, great link. A lot of period images from GMC's, Diamonds, Ward la France's etc. I haven't seen before. I guess they were copied from books.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Looks like it had a modified Derrick body.

The more I look into it, the Swiss 10,5 cm Howitzer tractors were fitted with:

1) a body - see above - adapted from the Derrick or Engineers/Winch type:


2) a purpose-built Swiss body:


Does anybody know if, next to this 10,5 cm howitzer tractor, the Swiss Army also used the standard LAAT with the 40-mm Bofors?

- Hanno

[zemsi]

... I just came across a short manual for the Blitzes the Swiss Army used in the 50's/60s. Unfortunately, it's only in German It's a pdf and the size is 3,6 MB. Here are 2 preview pics.

[Bill Murray]

Sorry to break in on a CMP thread, but I have been trying to figure out if the attached photo represents a Swiss Chevrolet.

I spent a small fortune buying the two books that I know of regarding Swiss vehicles, "Motorfahrzeuge in der Schweizer Armee 1898-1937" by Hildebrandt and "Fahrzeuge der Schweizer Armee" by Hofmann.

In both cases, I would have to say that the period 1935-1945 was very poorly covered to say the least.

So, I continue to hunt photos and identification of a wide range of mainly US and German sourced vehicles that were purchased by the Swiss Armed Forces during this period.

Hopefully Kuno or Zemsi can help out.

Bill

[zemsi]

Hi Bill

Glad to hear that you're interested in Swiss Army MV's. I thought I'd be the only one You've got some good books, however there are more on that subject.

You're correct, the period '35 - '45 is not covered well. The Swiss Army was really undersourced at that time. E.g. the Swiss just had 24 Praga Tanks at the outbreak of war. Most MV's were bought after the war of American origine. My Grandad was a scrappie and scrapped thousands of them in the '60 - '80s.

Your pic shows as German Officer and probably an NCO sitting in front of an unknown truck. Definitely not belonging to the Swiss Army.

Greetings
Chris

[zemsi]

Originally Posted by zemsi

... and here's another one. She is based at the Armeemotorfahrzeugpark Burgdorf (Army Motor Park). They store quite some old trucks etc. Unfortunately, it's not open to the public

Here are 2 better pics of this truck from my posting #8. You can also clearly see the rear body. Sorry, in German only.

On www.militaerfahrzeuge.ch you will find a lot of technical data of tanks, trucks etc. in Swiss Army use.

Greetings
Chris

[zemsi]

... well, the Swiss Army never used F15A's, but evidentially there's one in Switzerland. It was imported some 10 - 15 years ago from Austria, but I've never seen it on a public display. Yesterday, there was a chance to see it, as it's only 3km from my place away.

She looks like a 44 or 45 model, think she's running as the battery was connected. Looks in very good shape.

greetings
Chris

[zemsi]

... here's another rare period picture of a F60S in Swiss Army use. It's most likely the original pic of the one in posting #17.. Source

According to militaerfahrzeuge.ch the Swiss Army only used 71 Fords.

[zemsi]

... I just had a closer look and spotted some Swiss "finish" in the pic from posting #17:

- Swiss style retractable indicators
- the horn was moved between radiator and light
- a masked headlamp was placed where the horn was

[zemsi]

... here's another pic from the book "Solothurner Artillerie"

Text says: 10,5cm howitzer gun attached to a cross-country truck modell Ford Canada.

PS: Is this a modified roof as it doesn't have a hatch?

[zemsi]

... just found another pic of the F60S at the Swiss Army Collection in Burgdorf.

Will be there in a few days and take some more shots

greetings
Chris

PS From this view, the wheels look like from an F30??

[zemsi]

.. in the background a Swiss F60S

[zemsi]

... just got an old postcard with Jeep MB, Dodge WC 0,5t and 0,75t and 2 F60S in the background Date and place unknown.