25-pdr in Korea

[CWO (ret) Gilles Aubé]

David Hayward, could you be me explicit?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I sent Herb a high-resolution copy direct. With compliments!

Best wishes,

[Gunner]

Gilles:

I have one sample and am costing out what it would be to have them made by a chap that does alot of maritime ropework.

They are available in the UK at about 30-40 quid (60 to 80 bucks) which isn't bad until you figure in shipping as they each weigh in at about 25 pounds!

I need one more for the 25 pounder, two for the 17 pounder and two for the 6 pounder (they were, as best I can deternine, the same for all guns.) I'll probably get two for the 40 mm Bofors as well, although I can't remember if they are on the tool kit list.

The hardest part will be the hooks as they are a special item, long and slim with a slot for the leather keeper.

I'll let you know what I learn on the cost side of things.

Mike

[CWO (ret) Gilles Aubé]

OK GUNNER let me know of anny finding.
In the mean time we will use regular hooks, but I still need the rope lenght.

If you want I could post a picture of a dragrope assembly that I have received from the Artillery Museum in Shilo Manitoba.

[Rob Fast]

Any originals available for my 17 Pounder? Cheers Rob in Manitoba

[motto (RIP)]

What occurs to me about the practicality of that very high angle shot is the attitude of the projectile when it returned to earth. The gyroscopic effect due to spin does not reduce anywhere as rapidly as forward velocity and would, I believe, result in the projectile coming down base first. Presumably HE would be needed to have any effect on a target and the question arrises as to whether it would even detonate if impacting base first.
A mortar has tail fins and lack of spin to ensure arriving nose first.
IMHO firing a 25 pdr in the attitude depicted is no more than a stunt and of no practical use.
There used to be a fellow that was involved in ballistic testing and development of artillery during WW2 that wrote a column for a shooters magazine here in Oz. As part of the testing vertical firing for projectile recovery was carried out. The projectiles were arriving base first and so my doubts about results in this case.

David

[Barry Churcher]

Gilles, do you still need a drag rope?
Barry

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by motto

What occurs to me about the practicality of that very high angle shot is the attitude of the projectile when it returned to earth. The gyroscopic effect due to spin does not reduce anywhere as rapidly as forward velocity and would, I believe, result in the projectile coming down base first. Presumably HE would be needed to have any effect on a target and the question arises as to whether it would even detonate if impacting base first.

David,

Very interesting post. Now, for those of us without a Doctorate in Physics, could you please go over the above again? But slowly and in a mono-syllabic style?

I've always believed that a shell fired at a high-angle would travel in a parabola coming down nose first. That is, the shell's orientation (or attitude, as you say) during its entire flight would remain constant from muzzle to detonation. Are you saying instead that a shell fired at high-angle will go up, stop, and (due to the gyroscopic effect caused by the spinning) come down without achieving a parabolic arc?

I realize that the 25-pdr is a gun and not a howitzer, but aren't howitzers designed to fire at the same high-angle that is shown in the photograph? Are howitzer shells designed differently from gun shells?

Originally Posted by motto

A mortar has tail fins and lack of spin to ensure arriving nose first.

I had no idea this was so. And I've fired mortars. I thought that mortar shells spun. Thanks.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Mike Cecil]

... but it is not being fired vertically. The image shows the barrel at an angle of something like 20 degrees from the vertical. As a result, I think the projectile would travel in a high-angled parabola, and land nose first, and this would appear to be supported by Aust WW2 experience in New Guinea.

The problem of firing in the Upper Register, which the 25pdr with Mk2 carriage was not designed to do (unlike the Mk.3 carriage, which was hinged to allow UR fire) was faced by Australian gunners seeking sufficient elevation to get crest clearance, but still be able to 'drop' on a target the other side of the ridge. Answer: dig a deeper hole and drop the trail into it, just like the image. By variations to the charge weight (both standard charge bags and using different combinations of increment bags), the system reportedly worked quite well. If the projectiles had been landing base first, I wonder if the DA fuse on the HE projectile would activate consistently, if at all.

Incidentally, the Gun QF 25pdr is actually a 'Gun-Howitzer', as it has some of the attributes of both. It was designed to replace both the 18-pdr gun and the 4.5 inch Howitzer in British service.

Fantastic images, by the way!

Mike C

[CWO (ret) Gilles Aubé]

I am still looking for two 25 Pdr drag rope if someone as any.
Gilles