Wanted: Bag for ant. rods

greg anderson (RIP) · #1 01-03-04, 04:02

Wanted:the canvas bag used to hold C42 antenna rods on windshield of M38 jeep or would borrow to use as pattern or you may have a pattern?--Greg

Jon Skagfeld · #2 01-03-04, 17:43

Greg:

I've never seen or heard of a canvas bag for the Radio Set C-42.

Wireless Sets No 19, etc used canvas bags, but I think you're looking for the following:

NATO Stock Number 5985-99-102-3666. This is a rigid tubular case and has that NSN stencilled on it. Marc Montgomery sells them for about $10.00. Or...

NSN 5985-99-949-1061, Case, antenna No 2, 4' 3 1/2 " long x 1 1?8 " dia. (AKA ZA 11550 in Brit supply lists.) They both look identical, I think the differing NSNs reflect minor catalogue changes.

greg anderson (RIP) · #3 02-03-04, 03:45

Thank you for your interest Jon=I have been advised by Knowledgable dealers that there was a bag for these rods but that they are scarce-my M38 had a C42 set installed by the army since some of the fittings were left which are right on for the C42 and no other set-these fittings include the little metal wings on the outer face of the windshield which prevent end shift-the problem is that these are just over 51in. apart and my hard case is considerably longer-I also have the official instructions for installation of the C42 and the relevent picture shows what appears to be a bag and not the hard case--Thanks again ---Greg

JD Baillie · #4 03-03-04, 08:03

Greg,
Can you post that pic/page from the book?

JD

rob love · #5 03-03-04, 22:38

Greg
Is the installation instruction you are reffering to numbered E 039 Instr 18 dated 6 Apr 62? I have this and it shows the little wings and the two straps on the windshield. I have found, over the years, two different lengths of antennae storagetubes and the shorter one fits the M-38 as set up in the instruction. I have only seen canvas bags for the 19 set rods but never for the C-42.

JD Baillie · #6 03-03-04, 23:01

Rob,
Wasn't there a bag for the whole sputnick and radial assembly for the 46 set? The thing would fold up radials and all and drop into the bag.
JD

greg anderson (RIP) · #7 04-03-04, 02:04

JD&Rob--The photo in my installation book is fig. 13 and shows 2 tubes on windshield.--I am now thinking that there were 2 different sized tubes rather than a bag and I should be looking for a shorter tube since mine is too long.Anyone have one handy?Unfortunately I connot E-mail the illustration--Greg

rob love · #8 04-03-04, 15:56

Greg
Two tubes would almost make sense: The instruction shows the straps buckles on top and a single tube makes it very difficuly to tighten the strap as the buckle ends up curving back towards the windshield by the time it is snugged up.
The longer tubes are easy to modify; just cut them shorter and replace the two poprivets holding the bottom cap in place.
We used to carry spare antenna sections for these radios; the trees used to snap them off all too frequently. Of course all the antenna stowage tubes were hidden away back in the MT storeroom and the antennae sections were merely slipped behind the radio or back seat. The first time I ever saw these was when we prepared the radios for return to the supply system on receipt of the 524 sets.
We spent a week tying and tagging every spare cable and headset and finally hauling them all back to base supply. It was during this time I got the call to go regular force and on my return to Winnipeg 6 months later, I was somewhat surprised to find all the fruits of our labour at the local surplus yard in piles out in the rain.
Hmmm, I think I'm starting to ramble a bit.....

rob love · #9 04-03-04, 16:08

JD
I beleive you were right on the sputnik bag thing; I'm pretty sure I have seen these in the sigs section not all that long ago. It was amazing just how long the second war masts and accesories remained in service.
Greg, my illustrations won't be quite the same as yours. Mine are the installation onto the vehicle for the various brackets and wiring required for the installation of the radio. This stage would be done by the mechanics. Yours is likely the next step which is to actually put in the radio, ATU, batteries, etc. This would have been done by the sigs section and the operators. These 2 CFTOs would have been held in completely different sections of the workshop/unit.

Mike K · #10 04-03-04, 17:48

Rob,

Are you the guy who was using a old WW2 IR compresor for sandblasting ? I have located a manual for mine , covering the Waukesha XAH engine , and some of the compressor itself .

I think yours was a Canadian built one ? I been working on mine here .

Mike Kelly

Philliphastings · #11 04-03-04, 17:56

Hi Mike,

Is that a hercules JXD petrol which is giving you trouble ?

If so, have you thought of repowering with a hercules DJXD (Diesel) of similar vintage ?

I own one, which I had planned to lever into my White Scout Car project but never proceeded. It needed a few parts but was otherwise all there.

If you are interested, it's still sitting in our mutual friend's yard with the other goodies and there for the asking if you want it...

Cheers

Phill

Philliphastings · #12 04-03-04, 18:19

Hello Greg,

Is it the case for the antenna 'F' rods, or the case for the antenna mast which you are seeking ?

In instance I can measure and up each of mine and send the details. They are of British/Australian manufacture but should be virtually identical.

We had two types of hard cases here for the 'F' rods, one made of metal, with an earlier bayonet fitting metal cap (ZA11011) and the later Larkspur pattern synthetic case with a strap to secure the end cap (ZA53375). See attached fuzzy pic

There is also the canvas case with compartments for 'F' rods and 'G' rods as used on 19 sets (ZAA3537)

And finally the mast base antenna bag (ZA9487)

Cheers

Phill

JD Baillie · #13 04-03-04, 19:01

Who we need in this thread is an X Cdn Militia Armoured Recce. They used the M38s, and A1s to simulate armoured tactics. Rat Patrol we called them but they used all that gear and an old salt would remember it's layout accurately. I think the ground plane bag I remember is for the 46 set, not the C42. The C42 sputnik didn't have folding radials they needed to be unscrewed from a spiral wire holder.

JD

Jon Skagfeld · #14 04-03-04, 19:31

Hello JD et al...

I was going to jump in earlier and post more replies, but your post prompted me to "here we go, four wheel drive and bull low".

RS C-42 used the "sputnick" antenna array. The radials, slotted into spiral sockets, could be folded up into a sorta inverted pyramid. The AN/VRC-12 family of field tactical radios ( i.e. the 46 etc) also used a ground plane antenna array, the RC-292-a rather cumbersome bit of kit to erect. More common with the VHF sets in CF use was the Antenna Group OE-5024/VRC, a typical "sputnick" ground plane arrangement.

Interesting to note that the 42 set specifically required a 20' mast which employed the ground plane antenna, (i.e. the sputnick) whereas, as we all know, the WS No 19 specifically called for a 34 ' mast (at the set end, the 20' mast could be used at the far end as a prop for a long wire horizontal antenna). Both required no more than 50' of RG-58/U coax downlead, which could pose siting problems.

Well, enough of that...I think I've drifted somewhat off topic

Regards, all

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #15 04-03-04, 20:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Well, enough of that...I think I've drifted somewhat off topic

Yeah, like THAT doesn't happen often....

Philliphastings · #16 04-03-04, 20:44

It's Okay Jon,

I was with you every step of the way. CMP's are terrific - but you can't beat the real thing - Military Radio equipment !

Cheers

Phill Hastings

JD Baillie · #17 04-03-04, 20:47

Jon,
"... swamp aboders on our tail,
we don't know how to drive,
we don't scare, cause we don't care,
specially when wer're drunk,
we don't fear the two towed sloth,
nor the creature from the swamp..."

But perhaps I have drifted off topic... I don't remember the C42 ground plane array folding at the sputnik.. were'nt the spiral holders fixed? I think it was the ground plane array from the 46 that had the hinged attachements that folded. I need to go find my books.. drat.
Oh. Sunray. Drifting off topic when discussing a C42 is normal. That's why the 20 minute retuning schedule is required. So don't worry OK?

Cheers
JD

greg anderson (RIP) · #18 05-03-04, 02:40

First I confess to some memory problem--I was drawn this day to look at my 19 sets & found 4 of these bags full of rods & the bag fits the M38 for length-the rods for the 19 set and the C42 seem to be almost if not the same.The bags are marked "Bag aerial gear No.2 MKII CMC108-715 ZA-1247".I cannot locate these nos. in any literature at hand & would appreciate any info re this.Also I dismantled my hard case & believe I can cut it to fit.Some years ago a friend advised me that one of the local high schools had put these 19 sets out for garbage pick up & I rescued the lot including the 4 Bags--Greg

Jon Skagfeld · #19 05-03-04, 20:26

Greg:

The nomenclature of mine is exactly the same, except for the last which is ZAC 0437.

For what it's worth.

Regards

rob love · #20 06-03-04, 23:10

Mike
Yeh, I'm the guy who has the Cdn IR 105 compressor. The coupling went down last summer and I still have to re-assemble it. I have a ferret hull here from the Shilo museum waiting for sandblasting in the spring so I will re-assemble the compressor in April when the snow goes.
The compressor half looks the same as yours but my waukesha engine is definitely different.
I'll get some pics of mine in the spring and post them, but probobly not on this thread. Boy we are sure getting away from the antenna bag question.
JD:
I would be that ex-armoured militia type. But the M38s were all retired ( last of them in 1974) and I didn't join up until 1978. We used the M38Cdn2 and 3s as well as 4 of the M151A2s. The set-up for the C42s had changed by then. The ATUs had of course moved to the back of the jeep on top of the spare tire bracket (resulting in cracking to the rear body panels) and the stowage of the antenna rods was non-existant. The BB46 set-up was deleted in it's entirety as well. I do recall seeing one of the fender mounted ATU brackets still in service in 81 in Borden.
The C-42 was a funny radio; some days you had to "relay thru me" a message simply because the two jeeps who were trying to talk to each other were on the opposite sides of a bridge, and the next day you could be talking to taxi operators in Florida.