Canadian Centurion tanks question

[David Herbert]

Malcolm,
Good idea to just run off the rear tank and not refit the tanks either side of the engine. It will transform engine access and you would never have been able to afford to fill them up anyway.

If you have good battery charging facilities the aux gen is almost redundant as its primary role was to supply the radios and BV (kettle) without running the main engine.

David

[Ed Storey]

It appears that the Mk 11 Centurions in Lahr got cut up.

Centurions Cut Up.jpg

[Mike Cecil]

Rob,

Yes please, would appreciate a copy of the ELD.

Thanks

Mike

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

It appears that the Mk 11 Centurions in Lahr got cut up.

Attachment 101229

Perhaps Kraus Maffei decided they were not worth rebuilding, or else merely wanted to get them off the market. If the deal fell through altogether, perhaps that is why more of them made it to monuments or range targets.

I was with the Leopard Sqn in Gagetown back in 1980. I remember trainloads of the Cents waiting to leave. The story back then is that they were going to Switzerland for gun emplacements. I also remember two Centurions and two ferrets parked out on Shirley road waiting to go as hard targets.

[Clifford A. Logan]

I was a tech with the RCD in Germany, '74-'78. The Centurions went away and the leased Leos came aboard. If I remember correctly, there was a team from the Israeli Defence Force sniffing around the Cents at that time. In addition, I just spoke to a buddy who was part of the team that prepared and loaded Canadian based Centurions on a ship for Israel in the '80's. Guess all the Centurions didn't go to Switzerland after all; imagine that!

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Clifford A. Logan

I was a tech with the RCD in Germany, '74-'78.

Welcome Clifford. Any photographs from your time in Germany? All stories are welcome.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Clifford A. Logan]

Hi Dan,

During the time I was "taking the Queen's shilling" I was an avid AFV/softskin vehicle photo-nut. Unfortunately, after I bailed out in '91, I sold half a dozen albums worth of pix I took or traded with buddies around the world including those from my time in NWE. Only have about three Centurion related pix remaining. Depict an MRT job to change out a metadyne at Beausejour and Bergen Hohne circa '70 during my first tour with 4 Maint Coy.

My '74-'78 tour with the Dragoons was one of the highlights of my career, sort of a dream come true. Started with FALLEX 74 as B Sqn. FCS Tech crewing 28C with "Joe Joe the Wildman" MacIntyre. Rained for 40 days and 40 nights, not a good time to be driving a 113! There are some action photos of Joe and I attending 24B during a breakdown, featured in the Library and Archives Canada photo collection along with a bunch of other great Centurion related pic during Reforger 74.

A story that comes to mind is the time the Cent fell off the flat car at the rail head in Lahr; that was a bit of a challenge for the recovery gang to be sure. I'd been promoted and shifted to HQ Sqn. by then so wasn't involved. Got stuck into the Leo loan training program subsequently and that's another story.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Clifford A. Logan

...at Beausejour and Bergen Hohne circa '70 during my first tour with 4 Maint Coy.

Clifford,

Thanks for replying back.

You didn't mention being up north with the 'real Army' in the 70's. Did you make the trek from Beausejour to Lahr in October '70? Who was the armoured regiment CO when you were there? Did you witness the rebadging in June '70?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Cheers,
Dan.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Attachment 101229

I see two kinds of track in the photos: What looks like all steel dry pin (dead) track, and what looks like rubber pads live track. Was the rubber pad track a direct replacement for the steel track, or was it used primarily on the ARV/AVBL? I note our AVBLs were purchased in the mid 60s, as opposed to 1952/3 like the rest of our fleet.

[Ed Storey]

Yes, there was two types of track in use, I believe the British called the ones with the rubber "Hush Puppy" track. It gave better traction on the roads and didn't destroy them.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

...as its primary role was to supply the... BV (kettle)...

Which is why all British tanks are superior to all others.

Cheers,
Dan.

[David Herbert]

Thanks Dan, we have our priorities sorted !

Rob, the 'hush puppy' track is not a live track, it is dry pin but with moulded on rubber pads to improve running on hard roads. The name is taken from a brand of footwear popular in the '60s or '70s. The two types of track were directly interchangeable, same sprockets etc. The rubber faced hush puppy track came in relatively late so in British service tended to only be used on the specialist versions of Cent as the gun tanks were almost obsolete by then.

We continued with dry pin track longer than almost every other country because they are lighter, easier to work on in the field and of course cheaper. On the other hand they have a shorter life and need constant tightening and can not be refurbished when worn.

David

[rob love]

Looking at the photos, and the curl of the track, it almost looked "live". Just the way it happened to fall I guess.

I'll try to get the ELD scanned tomorrow, otherwise it won't be for another week. Then I'll put the notice on this thread for those who want it to PM me.

All the years I was in, I never saw the ELDs. It was just a couple of years ago when one of the units were divesting of paper copies of everything and going all electronic. I grabbed a truckload of manuals, and these were contained in the bunch. Everything was long obsolete, but the information in them is very down to earth. There are ELDs on the SMP vehicles, the mortars, some of the bridging, various radar and various electronic equipment.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by rob love

Everything was long obsolete, but the information in them is very down to earth. There are ELDs on the SMP vehicles, the mortars, some of the bridging, various radar and various electronic equipment.

You, my friend, have Gold! Any chance of you listing the ELD's you have?

I mean, if it's not too much trouble.

Cheers,
Dan.

Bet you didn't see this coming when you mentioned ELD"s.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

The rubber faced hush puppy track came in relatively late so in British service tended to only be used on the specialist versions of Cent as the gun tanks were almost obsolete by then.

Obsolete to the British, but the cutting edge of tank technology to the Canadians for another decade. Hush puppy tracks were de rigueur on the Mk 11's in Germany.

Cheers,
Dan.

PS: Live track and dead track? Qu'est-ce que c'est?

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

PS: Live track and dead track? Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Live track has rubber bushes on each track pin. The pins may be molded to the pad and end connectors installed, or may be pushed through a hex bushing with interlocking pads. When laid somewhat flat on the ground, the ends tend to curl up.

Dead track is simple pins through track shoes. When laid down it flops flat. Bren carrier track is a good example.

Live track is considered modern....dead track is antique. I always thought the USSR used it the longest, but the Cents may have given them a run for their money.

When I was still in the service around y2K, we got a call from a professor at RMC looking for a section of dead track to use as a training aid. We had nothing in service anymore, but I sent him a short section of bren carrier.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

Malcolm,
Good idea to just run off the rear tank and not refit the tanks either side of the engine.

David

Ensure the rear Aux fuel tank is meticulously cleaned out first. In Australian use, the rear tank in Vietnam was not used for fuel, it was filled with sand for RPG protection for the engine compartment. If these (fuel) tanks in Canadian service were fitted during a European tour where Urban fighting might have been more expected that long range driving, then it could also have been sand-filled as additional protection.

[Malcolm Towrie]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Ensure the rear Aux fuel tank is meticulously cleaned out first. In Australian use, the rear tank in Vietnam was not used for fuel, it was filled with sand for RPG protection for the engine compartment. If these (fuel) tanks in Canadian service were fitted during a European tour where Urban fighting might have been more expected that long range driving, then it could also have been sand-filled as additional protection.

Tony, 3 years ago when I was last working on the tank, I found the rear fuel tank rusty inside with the worst on the floor (no sand). I cleaned it and vacuumed it as best I good but access isn't good, and sprayed the interior with preservative oil. We'll have to think about what further cleaning we can do, or whether we'll settle for some heavy duty filtering.

Malcolm

[David Herbert]

Or make a new stainless tank using the original fittings and designed in such a way that you can use the last bit of fuel rather than permanently have 20litres going stale.

David

[eddy8men]

i cleaned the long range tank on one of my cents last week. fairly simple to remove the drain plugs and give it the good news with a high pressure steam cleaner.

[jdmcm]

Mike did all the Australian Centurions which served in Vietnam have the up-armored glacis and .50 ranging gun?

[Mike Cecil]

We are straying somewhat from Malcolm's initial question, but I think that has been answered satisfactorily by this stage anyway.

Australian Centurions sent to SVN - gun tanks, command tanks and dozer tanks - were fitted with:
- RG (with associated changes to the sighting system to correspond to the new ranging technique)
- applique armour on the glacis plate
- IR
- LR armoured fuel tank on the rear,
- internal changes to allow stowage of the IR sights & periscopes, the IR batteries, and the .50 cal ammunition liners.

... with one exception: one of the first two dozer tanks sent to SVN in 1968 was not fitted with RG and IR, and was not fitted with the basket, commonly called an IR basket, on the rear of the turret. A 'home grown' basket of smaller size was fitted in SVN to provide additional stowage.

Mike