25 Pounder info needed.

[Phillip]

Measurements:

Tool Box - 9" X 20 1/2" X 9"
Spare Parts Box - 8 1/2" X 12" X 6 1/2"
Illuminating Appartus Box - 8 1/2" X 10 1/2" X 4 1/8"

The two brackets at the top hold a Slide Rule. - Another trip to the shed.

[Private_collector]

Good on ya, Phillip, thanks!

I have a local disposals store that is owned by a really nice fellow, and I will take those measurements and Euans photos to him. He can scan his incoming Army boxes orders and let me know if something comes up. There is another disposals store about 90min away, that has some of the more exotic/rarer items. I can feel a drive coming on!

[Private_collector]

Gents,

Is this the correct gun rule?

If so, I have found one for sale
Looks complex to decipher. Real nerd territory.

If not, forget what I just said

T

[Phillip]

Close but no cigar.

The No.20 Fuse Indicator was made from manganese bronze, 23" in lenght and 2" wide.

Probably were worth a fortune at the scrap yard.

[Private_collector]

Wow, no wonder they aren't around now.

I don't care now that the seller of the one I showed won't ship out of UK.

[rnixartillery]

Tony,
That one wouldn't fit anyway ,like I mentioned before you will find it hard to get the correct one to fit the shield brackets.

Rob...................rnixartillery.

[Private_collector]

Sounds like a 'holy grail' item, Rob.

I can live without one. I may not even make the two brackets..........nah, probably will.

Next, I want to work on the fittings that lock the upper shield up or down. Won't be same as a real 25pr unfortunately. Not that talented. At least I got a decent set of spring latches that should look OK, I hope.

Wednesdays are the day I take Mum shopping, and assuming we finish on schedule, I want to get some gun work done when I get home in early afternoon. My shovel (and a NOS rubber eyepiece for telescope) is on it's way, and I should have it middle of next week. Looking forward to cleaning it up and putting it and the rope on the shield front. Speaking of the rope, a funny thing happens to it when the humidity is high. It loses a certain amount of pliability and swells slightly. That disappears when air dries again. This morning, humidity was 97%. Another 3% and it would be raining upwards!!!

My sincere thanks to all you folks who have humoured me in my thirst for information.

[The Bedford Boys]

This what you're after?

[Private_collector]

Hi Alex! Thanks for the photo. I don't actually know what the correct item looks like, but someone more knowledgeable than I can tell us. That one looks like it requires a degree in mathematics to operate, too. Fascinating things. When I used to fly (aircraft), I had an analog flight 'computer' which was used to calculate fuel burn time and make correction for wind, amongst other things, but luckily it was not always needed. I didn't like the damn thing. Not so hard as it looks, once you got used to it. It came with a wide Velcro strap, and would be held to your leg, to stop it moving around. See photo below.

[Phillip]

Um guys, I know it's not the best but look at the photo I posted up, it's the page from the 25pdr manual showing the correct slide rule.

A bit like the illuminating apparatus, probably out there somewhere....

[Private_collector]

If anyone has a box for the Illuminating Apparatus, that they wish to sell, I'm wanting one and will be happy to purchase.

Thanks,

[Private_collector]

Put the cleaning gear bag and its 'cage' onto the shield today.



Also made a trolley to move shield around easily. It's starting to get ackward as it gets heavier, and I didn't fancy the top flopping around while I work the parts to secure it up or down. Think I may have engineered a problem with the upper shield securing latches. The ones I have are bigger and while that isn't necessarily an issue, they may need to be relocated to avoid fouling other things. It happens!



The ranging sticks are nearly finished. Only the white parts and numbering to be done. I'll let the black paint harden a bit before I try putting masking tape on it. The numbers I'll print tonight.

[Private_collector]

Getting there with the sticks. White bands to be done on the posts, and some black on the round tops, then I'll call them done.



This is the oil can base I made last year some time. Not accurate to original, but I'm OK with that. Enjoyed making it, none the less.


Still looking for an illuminating apparatus case to buy!
No pressure.

Does anyone object to me posting photos of the parts I make, amongst the requests for information, on this thread?

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Does anyone object to me posting photos of the parts I make, amongst the requests for information, on this thread?

Of course we all agree to the parts photos being in the thread.

[Private_collector]

Yay. My military shovel arrived today, and I couldn't resist doing a test fit with the original drag rope along for the ride. Heavy bloody thing it is too.



I also ordered an original telescope rubber eye piece, from same seller. It is in absolutely mint condition. Very soft and pliable.



At least one more is available, but may not last long at $27.00 including free shipping within Australia.

[Private_collector]

Found a photo showing the canvas cover for the slide rule. I think I will make the brackets and a cover like in the photo, and give the appearance of rule being in place.



Do I understand correctly that the instrument was 23" long x 2" width? I have a very nice piece of 6mm thick aluminium plate that would fill out a canvas cover quite nicely. I can get the bracket dimensions and footman loop placements from my local gun, but are there any other specs or info I need to get this right?



One more question. I have seen many variations of finish on the 'head' of the range sticks, and even seen some partially painted red, so my question is.....how are they meant to be painted?

P.S: I take it that the chap in background of the 25pr photo is probably NOT interested in military history!

[rnixartillery]

Aiming post heads should be Black and White.

Rob....................rnixartillery.

[Mike Cecil]

Tony,

Looking good ..... some nice touches going onto your artillery piece.

The No.20 Fuze Indicator (ie the slide rule) mounts are 690mm apart, and the top edge of the brackets are 18mm from the top edge of the shield. The right hand bracket is positioned 40mm inwards from the right hand edge of the shield.

The two footman loops are 125mm from the top edge of the shield, and the right hand one is 230mm inboard from the right hand edge of the shield. The Loops are standard 55mm centre to centre, 15mm deep loops.

The base of the bracket measures 80mm x 43mm, and the depth of the part that holds the Indicator is 20mm deep, 30mm wide. The brackets are held on by 3 rivets, round head type, with the round heads to the outside (front) of the shield.

Measurements are from your local gun at Tiaro.

I have a good drawing of the No.20 F/Indicator in a Canadian parts book if you want to try and do any replicating, or have it for reference in case something like it comes up for sale.

How's the heat and humidity???? We are now basking in 0 degrees again .... mmmm lovely!

Best regards

Mike

[Private_collector]

Mike,

Thanks for those measurements. You save me driving to Tiaro again.
A piece of aluminium cut to size will do me for now. Good of you to offer though.

How bout we combine both temps and divide by two. I'm sure you can live with 15 degrees, and my 15 would suit me fine. I could get back to the engine building without dripping sweat down it's throat. If there is anything you discover you still need measured from Tiaro, just let me know. It is rather closer to me now, than it is to you!

I think I'll start referring to my fake as a 'quarter-pounder'. I'm sure you folks in USA will get the hidden meaning.

[Private_collector]

Well, a couple of things to tell.



The ranging sticks are finished. The white stuff you see in the retaining brackets is cotton material to avoid scratching the sticks. Have since obtained some thin green felt to use permanently....after painting, of course.



I have located and purchased a ground anchor cover......in the Netherlands! Purchase price was very reasonable. Shipping cost was horrendous. You only live once. I originally intended not to purchase, but what the hell, eh!



And, the zero plate and block have arrived from Rob N. I'm cleaning the plate right now. The wooden block is a work in progress too.

This weekend I want to make the track for the sight door to slide in.
Made templates for that, one night through the week.

Bought steel plate to make the brackets for the two wooden boxes.
Templates for those were made 2 weeks ago.

[Private_collector]

Rob N, here's your zero block. I tidied it up a little. It will be attached next Sunday.



Because of a transient episode of laziness, I only spent a couple of hours in the workshop today. It took me nearly all that time to fashion the following piece, being one half of the sight door sliding track. I think it's the harder of the two parts to make, so other one shouldn't be so painfully time consuming. Two hours of hand filing is my limit, I'm afraid. Never again.



It isn't really wider on the right hand side. It's a trick of the angle of photography.

[Private_collector]

A couple more questions folks.
Sorry for the poor quality of the following photo.



What is the item to left of the rope bundle??
If a shovel, it's not going to be very useful!

I occasionally come across photos showing box carrying brackets in locations forward of the shield. Why some do and aome don't? Is it worth recreating this on mine?



And does anyone recognise the type of box behind the soldier.


WOW, just WOW!

Impressive photo, but WHY does the flash curve upwards of the barrel angle?!?!?!

[Mike Cecil]

Image 1: looks like an an axe. Non-standard stowage, gun crew or Battery mod. A shovel ('Shovel, GS', British p/no JA1320) is the usual (and standard) stowage in that position.
Image 2: again, non standard stowage for a box about the size of the tool box that normally goes on the (true) right side of the trail. Box appears to be an AEME artificer's tool box: he seems to be working on the sighting system.
Image 3: camera lens parallax error? Don't really have a clue!


Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

WHY does the flash curve upwards of the barrel angle?!?!?!

Interesting effect Tony, my guess would be hot combustion gas rising. Same principle as hot air balloon but somewhat hotter!

[jack neville]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

WOW, just WOW!
Attachment 79880
Impressive photo, but WHY does the flash curve upwards of the barrel angle?!?!?!

Simple! Richocheting off the edge of the photo!!

[Private_collector]

Yes Tony, moderately warmer than a hot air balloon. Combine the gun with the balloon, and you have the worlds largest airbag.

Wonder if I could use airbag propellant sets in my gun barrel.
I can almost see my nice wooden muzzle brake flying away at great speed. Single use only.

I made the second part of my sight door slide last night, and I was correct that it took only a fraction of the time to make. Now to join the two pieces without obvious signs. I have a cunning plan, get someone else to do it.

My ground anchor cover is on it's way from NL.
If you look on YouTube under "Museum Canadian Allied Forces opent haar deuren op nieuwe locatie" you can see who I bought it from. Mr Heiko Ates. The lucky sod has considerably more toys than I do.

[Dave Mills]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

A couple more questions folks.
Sorry for the poor quality of the following photo.
Attachment 79879
What is the item to left of the rope bundle??
If a shovel, it's not going to be very useful!

I occasionally come across photos showing box carrying brackets in locations forward of the shield. Why some do and aome don't? Is it worth recreating this on mine?
Attachment 79881
And does anyone recognise the type of box behind the soldier.


WOW, just WOW!
Attachment 79880
Impressive photo, but WHY does the flash curve upwards of the barrel angle?!?!?!

The handle I believe is that of the Axe.

It looks to me as the artificer has just been servicing the layers quadrant, could the box be his tool box?

As for the muzzle flash, maybe a ballistics expert can answer that one.

Dave.

[David Dunlop]

Could the last photo have captured the moment just after the firing of the gun and just before a facing wind starts to push the propellant gases away?

David

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Could the last photo have captured the moment just after the firing of the gun

It's actually a time exposure David, not an ordinary hand-held photo. That's why the camera has been placed on the ground to steady it. The shutter would be opened in the pitch dark, just before the gun fires, then the light of the flash illuminates the scene. In other words the camera captures the entire duration of the flash and afterburn, which is long enough to observe some rising of hot gases.

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

and just before a facing wind starts to push the propellant gases away?

Yes a facing wind would definitely increase the effect. Even a 10 knot breeze equates to 5 metres per second, so it's bound to have some effect.

[Private_collector]

I guess in light of the camera being set on tripod, it's also conceivable that the blast pressure could have moved camera enough to distort the image.



Decided to briefly afix the part of sight door track that goes aginst shield itself. I wanted to be absolutely sure I had filed the correct amount for door to sit nicely against it. Then measured the minimum distance I can overlap the top piece to the door, and what do ya know, I won't need to shave any more metal off the width. May thin the thickness about 0.5mm once the welding has been done. Welding will be about a two minute job, literally.

Incidentally, the part sitting on upper shield in first photo, is laying face down, so it's bass ackwards! Left is right, and right will be left.