Pips and Crowns are back for the Canadian Army

[maple_leaf_eh]

All good and distinctive news. As for the ranks, Warrants Officers have worn crowns since Unification 'unified' the rank badges across the CAF. If Army majors reverts to old fashioned ranks, who will be saluting who?

The names for trained soldiers have been used forever, although maybe just informally.

By numbering the areas, there is bound to be even greater confusion.

[Wayne McGee]

Easy peazy, Major's are the ones with swagger sticks being followed closely by Pte Baldrick.

Cheers

[rob love]

That, and the haircuts should give it away.

[45jim]

They need to dump this stupid "members" phrase as well. No one calls them "NCM's" it always "NCO's". When they brought it out I thought I was being offered a membership in the Moose Lodge.

[rob love]

When writing PERs, my Captain would not allow us to use the term "member" in the PER, because it made him think of a penis. So instead we had to use "Cpl Bloggins" and "he" repeatedly throughout the evaluation narrative.

All of these changes are in order to wipe out the legacy of the liberal party of Canada, and even a higher up Liberal was complaining about it in the news yesterday. The idea of having a politically correct and environmentally friendly army is a bit of an oxymoron.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

When writing PERs, my Captain would not allow us to use the term "member" in the PER, because it made him think of a penis. So instead we had to use "Cpl Bloggins" and "he" repeatedly throughout the evaluation narrative.

All of these changes are in order to wipe out the legacy of the liberal party of Canada, and even a higher up Liberal was complaining about it in the news yesterday. The idea of having a politically correct and environmentally friendly army is a bit of an oxymoron.

I heard that. The Liberal defence critic said this had to do with wiping out the Liberal brand from the Armed Forces. What a hypocrite. As if Liberal unification, gas station attendant uniforms, wonky rank structures and removal of all things 'Royal' wasn't an attempt remove traditional symbols and re-brand things themselves.

[Hans Mulder]

As for the ranks, Warrants Officers have worn crowns since Unification 'unified' the rank badges across the CAF. If Army majors reverts to old fashioned ranks, who will be saluting who?

Small crown = Major = Salute

Large crown = WO = No salute

[servicepub (RIP)]

As this only applies to Orders of Dress other than DEW the discussion included the use of a horizontal line below the Major's Crown (similar to an Officer Cadet's current rank badge) to identify the Major from the WO. This was mostly to assist foreign soldiers who would not be familiar enough with the different sizes of Crowns. The other option was to just not do anything.
C

[servicepub (RIP)]

There is a lot of discussion in the media on this with many of the 'unwashed masses' complaining of the costs. This is understandable as the Minister's announcement put the accent on a return to heritage rank symbols.
Insofar as the Army was concerned, this was a pleasant, and welcome, by-product but the focus was on two items;
1. Inter-operability with Allied nations. Most countries with which Canada is aligned wear rank symbols where three identical devices identify a Captain and a single (different) device identifies a Major. Anyone who has done a UN tour will have noted that Egypt, Jordan, Croatia, and many others, as well as all of the Commonwealth countries, follow this practice. Canadian Army officers have attended international meetings in the field and have been asked both their rank and "why is the Navy here?" due to the existing rank stripes. In fact, of our major Allies only the US and France do not follow this system.
2. Cost. Every new officer and every promoted officer incurred tailoring costs to DND. The tailor was required to open the seam, unstitch the lining, remove the rank, sew on new rank, stitch the lining and re-sew the seam. An estimnated cost of $27.00 per uniform. Additionally, every officer incurred private costs for Mess Dress. Compare to pinning on a new star or crown at a cost of under $1.00. Further, the current rank symbols require every base tailor to stock separate rolls of every rank from O/Cdt to Col and almost 40cm are used per uniform. Compare to two boxes, one containing stars, another crowns.

Clive

[RHClarke]

I am sorry that I won't be in uniform to see this change take place. It is a good move that aligns the Canadian army with our hard fought military heritage. Some may say it is too "British", but the majority will not have such reservations. This is just another move that will serve to undo the damage done by the Liberals to one of Canada's most important institutions.

Next step: Reinstate the Airborne Regiment!

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Hans Mulder

Small crown = Major = Salute

Large crown = WO = No salute

optionally;

Major - Don't salute, get shit.
Warrant Officer - Salute, get shit.

[Lang]

A hundred years ago we had a Canadian Survey Corps Major on exchange on a job in Papua New Guinea. The Canadians had not long changed to combined forces or whatever it was called.

Apart from the Australian soldiers treating him like an Air Force officer ie ignoring him because of his stripes, he was openly depressed that politicians and their politically correct advisors were allowed to destroy a heritage going back to before the Romans.

The separation of land, sea and later air, elements recognised their unique areas of expertise along with specialised skill and training.

The bleeding hearts can not come to grips with the fact an army is purely and simply a killing machine. No matter how you dress it up with parades, rescues in flood/fire/famine or "peace keeping", the only reason for spending an obscene amount of money on an army is in the hope we can kill more of them than they kill of us before our country is occupied or destroyed in times of absolute national threat.

A big part of this is tradition and many is the time a smaller or lesser equipped force with greater belief in themselves has defeated a superior enemy purely through morale. Having everyone in the same school uniform using contrived names, ranks and job descriptions seriously damages the backs-to-the-wall motivation of the entire force.

Great move Canada to finally see some sense!

Lang

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Michael R.

[I] ...
We should get a move on to have those 115,000 or so active "member's" uniforms changed up, and supplies stocked into "the system". Will it be just in time to change the whole dang lot to a King's crown?

The Windsor crown is with us for a while. I have no idea where or how I remember this factoid, but Prince William apparently has no interest in changing the crowns. They are too deeply ingrained across the Commonwealth to change easily. (While HRH Queen Elizabeth II had to change when she stepped up is beyond my pay grade.)

[Hans Mulder]

Any word on the implementation timeline?

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Well all us blue guys ,if we revert back to our pre Hellyard ,as Warrant officers ,we now become Flight Sergeants..
Yea..Bring it on!!
Canadian politicians are not and never have been interested in defence," he wrote, adding "the Canadian public cannot escape a share of the blame. Too many of our people think that all we enjoy was always there, was not fought for, will just continue, without our personal attention. We are no longer pulling our weight in international affairs. While some reasonable degree of freedom still remains for us under our form of government, we must face the fact that this freedom will soon disappear unless we exercise our rights wisely. We must take greater pains to ensure that we are well enough informed to choose wise leaders - perhaps, great leaders.
Jeff Brock
Rear Admiral
http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.or...ification.html