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#1
07-02-11, 16:29
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Note for Rob.....
Next time we need to add your video recorder....particularly the sound track
which ...hopefully... will capture the low frequency rumble..... of the engine running as if out of balance. Rob do you have a provision for plugging a remote microphone into your video recorder.....? The engine almost felt and sounded as if a large chunk of something was attached (frozen) to the crankshaft and rotating out of round..... In reviewing an old Chilton manuals last night, I confirmed that the setting should be TDC for the 235..... Also..... the 1958 GM manuals talks baout a cylinder balance test to determine if one cylinder is being dragged by the rest of the engine. It calls for systematiclly grounding four of the 6 cylinders with the engine running in a particularly paired order..... and recording rpm drop and vacuum drop..... Something to consider for the next mild day..... Bob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada 
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#2
07-02-11, 16:50
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Quote:
I have been remiss in my barnyard duties but claim new books and much travel as my excuses.  Clive
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Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed. - M38A1, 67-07800, ex LETE
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#3
07-02-11, 20:24
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Stress Not!
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#4
07-02-11, 21:12
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Quote:
I'm looking for the Smilie that blows kisses.... C. (Who the Hell is Kisses you are asking  )
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Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed. - M38A1, 67-07800, ex LETE
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#5
07-02-11, 22:13
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Guys, not wishing to put you on a wrong track, but I had similar problems once with a VW Beetle. Started up fine, but would not run smoothly when revving up, whether driving or running free.
In the end it turned out a wire in the distributor connecting the rotating breaker points plate to the fixed base of the distributor had broken, so the points were badly grounded. Took a lot of head scratching and replacing of parts to find that one! Hanno
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Regards, Hanno --------------------------
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#6
08-02-11, 02:56
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Prefair Trip - Montreal
I am heading to Mount Royal tomorrow (actually Beloeil) to vist Prefair/Sail. Let me know if you want me to recce anything for you.
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? Last edited by RHClarke; 08-02-11 at 03:08.
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#7
08-02-11, 03:30
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Wanted: Post WWII metal spare gas container
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Do a recce in the storage containers in the back yard. Lots of Iltis parts.. bring me back two of each....... (just kidding of course, I think I already have 2 of each........) Cheers! Stuart
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Deep in the Cold War Bunker of Doom
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#8
08-02-11, 04:53
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Quote:
 comparing a good CMP with a VW!!!!!!!   
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Cheers Cliff Hutchings aka MrRoo S.I.R. "and on the 8th day he made trucks so that man, made on the 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night" MrRoo says "TRUCKS ROOLE" 
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#9
08-02-11, 10:04
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Quote:
__________________
Regards, Hanno --------------------------
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#10
07-02-11, 16:56
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Take a look at test stand videos
Hi Bob
Great minds must run in sync, about grounding out individual cylinders to find the source of a problem. Adding in taking video and sound recording improves on the old test of just grounding out the plugs one at a time. Did this trying to track down a noise on the engine that went into the C60L video link http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...PANDED%201.wmv. If you want to hear what my 235 sounds like here is the link http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...l%20videos.wmv all the engine videos are on http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ineTesting.htm . People may think I'm nuts for all the photos and videos I shoot of the CMPs (they're probably right) one of my reasons is of course to share but the other is that I use the videos and photos to cogitate over problems. Question this engine did run smooth at one time after it was rebuild correct? The roughness is something that has developed? If the engine is suddenly unbalanced in its running along with backfiring I would begin to suspect that an intake valve is sticking open. Remember I had this problem with the 261 engine a couple of months after it was rebuilt, in my case the valve finally stuck. Cheers Phil
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Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
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#11
07-02-11, 17:12
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Comments.....
The cylinder balance test from GM calls for grounding 4 plugs and running engine on just two cylinders.....something I have yet to see.....
NOTE...engine was never rebuilt....but was a good running engine....as early as before Xmas it ran very smooth...... Stuck valve I believe would make different noise if stuck open.... not sure if we would hear anything if stuck closed....but if closed something would happen to the push rods..... may be it has....? Is it possible....just maybe..... with the engine stored at -30C that some small amount of water could have frozen in one of the drilled out holes in the crankshaft...the ones they drill at the factory to balance the counter weights....... and we did not run the engine long enough to really get it to operating temp.... holes are about 1 1/4 inch wide...up to an inch deep.... if it held water frozen it might be enough to unbalance the engine.... Strange is the engine ran fine....vacuum was good.... picked up revs easy with no backfire..... but vibrated in a very low frequency rumble that picked up with higher revs. Bob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#12
07-02-11, 18:48
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Quote:
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#13
08-02-11, 19:17
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Stuck valve
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That will tell you right away..Do a dry one and then squirt in a little motor oil (wet test) and that will tell you if it is a valve or a ring or could even be a piston skirt.. That would account for your balance thoughts..but a wet and dry compression test will tell you lots. With out doing that first you are poking in the dark.. (If you need a compression testing gauge,I have one here kicking around some where ..you can borrow it)  
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk: Last edited by Alex Blair (RIP); 08-02-11 at 19:24.
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#14
08-02-11, 19:58
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prefair
One AA gun has been sold. One is being negotiated ($7500 per) leaving one available.
No metal gas cans No good tires available but some 20 x11s remain. Two 3/4 ton trailers at 400 each - were genny tlrs. Two jeeps - civ Willis types dated 59 or so Field telephones 15 each Combat shirts and pants at 3 each. ETD 15 mins
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#15
08-02-11, 20:05
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Thanks for the comments....
Cylinder balance test.....compression test..... and yes I have a gauge...
Will also re check the plugs to see if one is not firing.... they were very black when we cleaned them up just before Xmas.... and running smooth at the time..... When I think about it..... it is almost as if one cylinder was dragging... a dead weight........causing the engine to vibrate..... don't think it is a valve but will probably remove the valve cover..... look at it while running.... re-check valve adjustments.... verify all electrical connections..... Above all will make sure it is warmed up sufficiently...... will cover the rad opening....
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#16
09-02-11, 00:41
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Quote:
But a cracked or broken piston skirt is a possible culprit.. Take the valve cover off and roll it over on the starter to see if the push rods aren't changing hole..that will be a start too..and eliminate stuck valves..roll it over by hand with the plugs out when you are doing your compression test.
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk: Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 09-02-11 at 08:58. Reason: formatting
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#17
08-02-11, 20:12
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Thanks for the comments....
Cylinder balance test.....compression test..... and yes I have a gauge...
Will also re check the plugs to see if one is not firing.... they were very black when we cleaned them up just before Xmas.... and running smooth at the time..... When I think about it..... it is almost as if one cylinder was dragging... a dead weight........causing the engine to vibrate..... don't think it is a valve but will probably remove the valve cover..... look at it while running.... re-check valve adjustments.... verify all electrical connections..... Above all will make sure it is warmed up sufficiently...... will cover the rad opening.... More later....
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#18
08-02-11, 21:38
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Haiieeyyy Caramba.....
Road trip with the float on Saturday morning...... Rob should not have been let out with out supervision........
....and another local road trip tonite to recover an excellent 261 engine.... Will soon need another barn or more acreage....!!! Bob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#19
08-02-11, 23:18
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Hup whore
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The HUP frame has some damage, but nothing that can't be repaired. Drive train and engine are intact (functioning? - not known yet). The four rims "look" to be in good nick, but time will tell. The frame also has a lot of the add-ons that are becoming increasingly rare in these parts. There is some sheet metal, but it has seen better days. So the HUP frame was a good buy in my estimate. The other frame is a POS with only the two axles and some of the add-ons, making it somewhat worthwhile. There is potential for the frame and the other parts will go up for sale or be used as spares. The second frame (C15) came as part of the package deal worked out between Mr. Cote and myself. They are even going to load the trailer for us - on a Saturday no less! The weather in Montreal was the shits. They have a lot more snow down than we do in Ottawa. I went through two jugs of windshield washer fluid on this trip due to the excessive slush on the roads and the resulting saltspray. Not a bad recce - now I have to tell the wife about the latest acquisition...more on the the trip later.
__________________
RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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