CGT Restoration - Update

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Walde,

Excellent work! Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress.

Hanno

[Walde Libera]

Just a couple shots of CGT rear body door build. Luckily I had both left and right "original too far gone" samples to work with. Satin coat 18 gauge is fairly easy to work with. Patience was the biggest challenge, it was at easier to get less picky at times when you want to see some true progress. Learned to move on to other simple sub-components whan I got frustrated. Made rear door hinges from front door Latches were the same source.
Lots of pics and measurements for the next restorer who wants to tackle a CGT rear body.

Walde

[Maurice Donckers]

Looks to me as if you are making the doors more complicated then they realy are . They are not made like the factory build front doors , only lock and side screen brackets are the same .
I can make pictures of my orriginal doors in my CGT (Ex portugal) if you want .

[Walde Libera]

Guys

I lost my measurments for the two roof air vents, their location and the location and size of the 2 holes for canvas top straps.Just rough demensions would work.Rush please! I can't paint the body without these bits in place.


PS I made my rear doors from originals, so if they seem different its because probably more than one CGT body builder used, Gotfredfson (I think I spelled it wrong) and someone else. My samples were disassembled and copied.Would love to see pics of your doors!


Walde

[Walde Libera]

Finally rolled the body out of the garage, space at last!

Walde

[Harry Moon]

Your gonna make it wally, your gonna make it!

[Walde Libera]

I Everyone

Been a very busy summer, the weather was excellent for working outside, so I made the most of it. It was time to put the rear body on to the chassis. We trailer-ed the body into my car port and being on a wheeled cart it rolled off fairly easy with only a few tense moments. Luckily for me I had acquired a 2 post car lift hoist several years ago so I swung 4 arms out and picked the body straight up and unbolted my dolly cart.
After I backed up the CGT chassis carefully underneath and gently lowered the CGT body onto the frame. I made 2 wooden spacers from an old pallet made of mahogany, quite a bit of fitting and cut outs for various bolt heads and frame rivets. Then the body was secured to the frame by 4- 3/4" U bolts and 2-1/2" bolts. A local spring shop made the U bolts for about $25 each.
What was amazing was the distance between the front cab and rear body was about 3/4" to 1" apart top to bottom.

I spent the next few weeks on compartment doors, 15 of them, using 1" stainless steel piano hinge, steel and aluminum rivets. After a while I got the hang of it. They turned out really well. My buddy Bruce a sheet metal expert made all the raw pieces and I sand blasted each piece and primer-ed them before assembly.

Walde

[Walde Libera]

Hi everyone

Catching up on stuff so I am posting a few more, had some free time today.These pictures were taken in early July. My good neighbor Roland a retired automotive upholsterer working on the canvas roof. Over the 5 year restoration Roland did all the work on the seats, windows and mud flaps.
Our club Western Command was having another convoy through the BC interior in August so I ended up working on the details, lights, decals etc to get it ready in time. There was no time to de-bug the CGT; so I managed to get a trailer for the trip. The first leg through the mountain is very hard even for a modern vehicle let alone a 65 year old vehicle. So I decided the hard part I'll trailer and then drive the CGT-FAT on the easier legs. The trailer will be the insurance policy. The trailer picture is at the mid point of the climb up the Coquihalla highway on the first day of our 65+3 Western Command tour. The last picture is just before we took the CGT off the trailer on its first convoy stop in Merrit, BC.


Walde

[Walde Libera]

I few shots of the tour. Our tour was extensive, Merritt was our first stop. Then on to Logan Lake, that's where the heavy equipment is. Unfortunately while driving the FAT out of Chase I lost oil pressure and promptly stopped or better stated the engine came to a grinding halt. So the rest of the trip the FAT stayed on the trailer. The last shot is I'm inspecting the bottom end of the 235, #2 rod bearing spun.Still repairable though! I was revving the engine a little high, as I was told by a M135 following at 55 MPH I was leaving trailing behind! So they nickname for the FAT became "Ferrari". So what's the math for 55 MPH with 7.17:1 diffs and 11.00X20 tires? What was the engine RPM?

Walde

http://picasaweb.google.com/BruceM001/Freedomroute3#

[Walde Libera]

Pulled the 235 out the day after we came back from the convoy,the engine just needs a crank grind and bearings so I thought now would be just as good a time to put a 261 in as any. I typed 261 in craigslist in the Vancouver area and got a hit in Chilliwack;just 70 miles away! A hot rodder wanted to get rid of his 261 with only 3000 miles on it, so we made a deal for $600 and I got a duel exhaust manifold thrown in. Talk about a good day. The following weekend I re-gasket-ed the 261 and got the engine back in the CGT.

A few modifications, an oil cooler, dual exhaust, fan shroud and most important a tach!

Walde

[Alex van de Wetering]

Walde,

excellent work! The Ferrari looks great with the body on it.

Is the tach a permanent fitting? If it is, it might we worth searching for a more period looking example(?).

Alex

p.s. That a pretty rare GMC COE in the background as well!

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Walde

Pulled the 235 out the day after we came back from the convoy,the engine ... A hot rodder wanted to get rid of his 261 with only 3000 miles on it, so we made a deal for $600 and I got a duel exhaust manifold thrown in. Talk about a good day. The following weekend I re-gasket-ed the 261 and got the engine back in the CGT.

A few modifications, an oil cooler, dual exhaust, fan shroud and most important a tach!

Walde

The 261 with the dual exhaust, I assume Fenton headers solves a lot of problems. For those of you how have had problems with getting the exhaust manifold to stay sealed on your 216, 235, or 261 the split header seems to be the answer exhaust leaks and warping of the manifold from heat. The two piece header allows the manifold to deal with the heat (modern gas) without leaking. Works well on all three of the engines.

Question for you do you know which carb you have. There is a large throat and a small throat. I just found two of the large throats this summer and installed one on my 261 and there is a significant difference.

Just did my first long convoy with the 261 in my C60S (gross weight 11,000 lbs.) and even surprised some of the modern M-series trucks. Nice not to be the slowest vehicle any more. The 261 doesn't really change top end but you get up to speed faster and can hold it on the grades.

As to adding instruments like, tach, oil temp, vacuum I've been collecting the smaller 2" instruments and mounting them above the windshield once I find a tach I'll install the group with a hinged visor to hid them when the vehicle is on display.

Goes without saying you have the CMP most desired by all us CMP nuts. Great work on a great looking truck.

[Maurice Donckers]

Hi , nice that there is one on the road again . on the picture is mine , the foto was taken at Beltring last Summer , Engine is rebuilt orriginal one , rest is also as it should be , no extra`s. it will do 45 MPH without over revving it.

[Walde Libera]

Several interesting questions.

Phil/Maurice/Alex

How can you tell if you have the large throat 261 carburetor, I have one extra with the 261?

As far as the exhaust manifold goes it is a one piece cast manifold with two out lets, as far as I know probably an original Pontiac option from the 50's. My exhaust set-up uses a modern Ford muffler dual inlet 2" to a single 2 1/2" outlet. I am going to keep a close eye on the exhaust manifold gaskets as you suggested, a re-torque/tighten when its still warm would be a good idea too. Which I have done.

The major difference in power over the 235 is the 261 it can hold on in 3rd gear longer in some cases I don't have to gear down as often up hills in our geographic area in the city or on the highway.In our recent BC convoy the truck spent a lot of time on the hills in 2nd gear wound out, it just wasn't enough torque to hold on to 3rd.

As the F.A.T. will be driven frequently, I opted for reliability and drivability over the 235 or the 216. For high way travel you need to do a sustained 45MPH, 50 MPH is preferred but not possible with most WW2 and M series vehicles like an M38. At about 48MPH I had a tach reading of 3800 in the FAT, so 45 MPH is about maximum speed.

Our club plans in 2012 is to drive the Alaskan highway and an Alberta trip at the same time , I'm guessing a 4000km drive. Our trip distances are fairly long, this years convoy was @1000km total round trip over 6 days and a majority on a major highways.

As far as the tach goes, it's temporary as I need to verify the operating parameters of vehicle in general,the sounds, the gears, road noise, at least until everything becomes comfortable. Phil, Princess Auto has 2" tach's at @ $30.00 CAN.

My last job for the FAT is installing a 19 set for the rear passenger compartment. I have some pics of one from WW2 in Canada, so might as well and I can display my 19 set.

My new project is restoration of a No 27 limber (to go with the FAT) Anyone have issues mounting 900X16 NDT's on the limber wheels? I am having trouble getting them on, the limber wheels were made in Canada. They are similar in configuration to an M37 rim.

Thanks for your input gentleman!

Walde

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Wade

Interesting to hear your progress, here is the info on the carburetor differences
http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...e%20Manual.htm look at page 16-24

The NOS that I installed on my truck actually was noticeably more power full.

Cheers Phil

Just added the section of the page.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Walde

My new project is restoration of a No 27 limber (to go with the FAT) Anyone have issues mounting 900X16 NDT's on the limber wheels? I am having trouble getting them on, the limber wheels were made in Canada. They are similar in configuration to an M37 rim.

Thanks for your input gentleman!

Walde,

You have the same problem anyone working with 16" wheels encounters. Read new 9.00-16 tyres for WD split rim wheels and read the linked threads.

It all boils down to the fact that the bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" tyres and rims are ¼" larger than those of US 16" tires and rims.

HTH,
Hanno

[gordon]

Hanno pretty much has it, not sure of the exact size, but ...

The real difference is that the US wheels / tyres have a 5 degree angle on the seat, wheras British / Canadian ones don't.

It is quite easy to fit British tyres on US rims ( I've never heard of problems doing this, despite the size difference) but doing it the other way round wouldn't be easy as you have found out.

Given the choice of;

1. Altering the rims to suit the tyres (hard)
2. Altering the tyres to suit the rims (easier, but how safe?)
3. Forcing them on with a damn great press.

I think number 3 would be my choice, with plenty of lubrication and cleaning, maybe a hair of grind back on the tyre seats.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Walde,

You have the same problem anyone working with 16" wheels encounters. Read new 9.00-16 tyres for WD split rim wheels and read the linked threads.

It all boils down to the fact that the bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" tyres and rims are ¼" larger than those of US 16" tires and rims.

HTH,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by gordon

Hanno pretty much has it, not sure of the exact size, but ...

The real difference is that the US wheels / tyres have a 5 degree angle on the seat, wheras British / Canadian ones don't.

It is quite easy to fit British tyres on US rims ( I've never heard of problems doing this, despite the size difference) but doing it the other way round wouldn't be easy as you have found out.

Gordon,

I beg to differ. While the debate has been on the 0 vs. 5 degree bead taper, the real difference is the larger bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" rims. To be precise, ¼" larger, as Mike Kelly found out by measuring.

That is why it is easy to fit tyres for British rims on US rims. I know of cases where the British tyres would not center properly on US rims because of the larger bead diameter, leading to wobbling etc.

Regards,
Hanno

[Maurice Donckers]

Hi , usually the limbers had road pattern , I still got some if you need them , and I used used ferret tires to put on the 15CWT`s , and 25Pr .The bead of the ferret tires is tick enough to take some material away , steel bands are deep in the material. I just put them on a big tire cutting machine , and machined some rubber away without trouble.

[gordon]

if Mike has measured it then fair enough. I'll just add that I have fitted UK (Landrover 101) tyres to Dodge wheels and they were a neat fit, with no rattling or centering problems. there is probably more work to be done here on the exact sizes, angles, and fits, as a 5 degree chamfer across a 1" bead isn't going to give 1/4" difference.

Gordon

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I beg to differ. While the debate has been on the 0 vs. 5 degree bead taper, the real difference is the larger bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" rims. To be precise, ¼" larger, as Mike Kelly found out by measuring.

That is why it is easy to fit tyres for British rims on US rims. I know of cases where the British tyres would not center properly on US rims because of the larger bead diameter, leading to wobbling etc.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by gordon

if Mike has measured it then fair enough. I'll just add that I have fitted UK (Landrover 101) tyres to Dodge wheels and they were a neat fit, with no rattling or centering problems. there is probably more work to be done here on the exact sizes, angles, and fits, as a 5 degree chamfer across a 1" bead isn't going to give 1/4" difference.

But don´t forget wartime Britis wheels were 6" wide, while post war British 16" wheels were 6.5" wide just like the wartime US ones. The problem was solved by then.

So: a LR 101 NDMS or Ferret Dunlop Trakgrip Run Flat tyre fits a US wheel and postwar British wheel - but not a British wartime wheel.

Class are we still here?

H.

[Walde Libera]

Guys, finally finished the #27 limber.

Been an extremely busy summer! Many events, but in the few days I had free I finally debugged the FAT, everything is working as it should, brakes don't pull, steering doesn't shake, most of the fluids stay in, it doesn't get better than that. It's no longer challenging to drive.

That's a 37 MM borrowed from our US brothers at the Arlington Air show this year. Twenty five pounder anyone?

Cheers Walde

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Walde

Guys, finally finished the #27 limber.

Been an extremely busy summer! Many events, but in the few days I had free I finally debugged the FAT, everything is working as it should, brakes don't pull, steering doesn't shake, most of the fluids stay in, it doesn't get better than that. It's no longer challenging to drive.

That's a 37 MM borrowed from our US brothers at the Arlington Air show this year. Twenty five pounder anyone?

Cheers Walde

Great job Walde..fine looking Outfit..You may want to consider the period flag..the Red Ensign..you can get the correct flag from our MLU grand Poobah..
Jif..
See image here..

http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=...w=1680&bih=814

[Bob Carriere]

How about posting some pictures of the finished product from all 4 sides..... for inspiration !!!!

Boob

[Ken Hughes]

You have done a great job there Walde,i am impressed .

[Frantisek Nachlinger]

I really like this thread, going through it for 3rd or 4th time.
Walde, any news about your FAT? Have you allready found a 25 pounder?

Frankie

[blitzkriegwarrior]

Love this thread ,
I'm at the starting point for the restoration of 2 gun tractors , a Ford and a Chevrolet.
It'll be a challenge to reproduce the complete 7B2 body (X2)

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Frankie and Philip

Thanks guys for bring an older thread back to the foreground. Caused me to go back and reread the entire thread from beginning again. While many of us read all the new post regularly most hit the View First Unread button so we skip over the older post.

This thread has a lot of information about a great restoration project.

Cheers Phil

[Walde Libera]

Hi Guys

I'm still here, I have the knowledge, 7000 miles on the gun tractor since 2008.
Great parade vehicle too as it generates conversation at Western Commands displays .

Walde

[Hanno Spoelstra]

“Toadman’s Tank Pictures” spotted Walde’s CGT on display at the 2016 MVPA National Convention in Pleasanton, California, USA.

It sure does get around.