Bren advice

RichardT10829 · #1 31-05-12, 23:27

A local chap is selling this 1944 bren for £260 GBP it field strips and dry fires....can anyone tell me much about it from its pics ? what should i look for ? and is it potentially worth what he is asking for it ?

Cheers

Richie

Jordan Baker · #2 01-06-12, 00:00

Looks to be a MK1 Bren and it appears to be in very good shape. Even with the conversion the price is very fair. In Canada they tend to go for $1000-$1300 CND

horsa · #3 01-06-12, 04:54

Yes, its a mixed gun. The main receiver is a Mark I pattern so that is how the British would have identified it on records. Without seeing the markings on the side, it is possibly one of the modified patterns purposely built with economy pattern parts while the transition to the Mark II was not complete.

Basically that gun has a lot of Mark I parts with later pattern butt and bipod. Price would be about right here in the USA for a rebuilt parts kit dummy gun. Can't say what the market price is in the UK but know enough that you need to make sure it is papered to match the way it was demilled.

maple_leaf_eh · #4 01-06-12, 05:16

If you want to impress the rivet counters, you've just been told it probably isn't going to get you any favourable noises. BUT ... if you need a representative BREN for your particular purposes, 250 pounds might be the best buy you'll make. It all depends on what you want.

For example, I hunt with a very utilitarian .300 Winchester Magnum rifle that has a plastic stock. It shoots very very well, but would be laughed off the firing point at a target rifle match. Horses for courses.

shaun · #5 01-06-12, 09:20

Hi Richie, as has already been said this is a late Canadian manyfacture MK1. its nice to see its a bit worn, there as so many 1950s refurbed guns out . if you look at those during the war they were getting a bit on the worn side. It correct for its MK. The price is very good , if you dont want it buy it and i will have it off you !!!!!! its about £100 cheeper than they are oing for at the moment.

RichardT10829 · #6 01-06-12, 09:23

ok cheers Shaun....might try and work a deal with him. Either way as long as its what it is purported to be, even if its no good for me I will get it for you.

Lynn Eades · #7 01-06-12, 09:46

Could some of the clever buggers explain it in more detail?
Richard it would be fine for what you want.
Here is my limited knowledge on it. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.
The Barrel is from a MkI bren (Stainless flash hider)
The bipod is MkII (it is non adjustable)
A MkI has the fancy drum back sight.

Any price you get is only going to be relevant in the country its in, because the laws in every country are different. (the only consistency is that the U.N is doing its best to take any thing that pings a rubber band or a piece of potato off us.
Over here a licenced person can own a "live" one ( but we cannot ever fire them) A deactivated one is treated exactly the same as a live one, under the law.

eddy8men · #8 01-06-12, 10:05

nice gun and a nice price. i wouldn't worry about miss matched parts, it went thru ww2 so it's bound to have been repaired and upgraded.

rick

RichardT10829 · #9 01-06-12, 20:59

right picked it up an hour ago... complete with de act certificate from Birmingham proof house.... the chap is selling his entire collection including a pristine Enfield No.4 which he wants £380 for, he is going to email me his list of kit and prices in due course.

I was a bit bummed that the barrel on the bren was not removable but the chap was saying that this practice is no longer allowed under current de ac rules and normally the older de ac's will still have the removable barrels....this one was done in 2002.... i am none the wiser he could have been spinning me a yarn for all i know. I did notice that the cocking mech needs to be forward assisted ? is this due to an empty mag or is it a typical bren thing ?

Marc van Aalderen · #10 01-06-12, 21:46

Hi Richard,

Fixed barrel is indeed the current law in the UK. The spare barrel is not allowed either. The old spec de-acts are very desirable because of the removable barrels en that is expressed in the prices of these.
Cocking handle is not spring assisted to its forward position so, yes, you return it manually after cocking the gun.

The gun you just picked up is a nice example and will look very good in your Carrier. How are you getting along with the Carrier BTW? It's been a while since your last thread update.

Cheers,

horsa · #11 01-06-12, 22:00

I'm amazed that an Enfield rifle has such a high value compared to the Bren. We must have imported them all into the USA because they are readily available here in live, functional condition

I've always had nice shooters of the various patterns but needed two Number 4 Mark I rifles to keep with the T-16 for display after I did the restoration. They used to cost $69-$79US in average condition but I broke down and paid $100 each for mine as I wanted to go up to the very good condition grade. Really weird how something produced in the UK in such a large quantity would become so expensive.

On your Bren, I've seen a lot of people over there with resin copies of the barrel to fill out their spare barrel case or locker when on a Universal Carrier. Used barrels can be found at shows over here for $25-35US but there isn't any way for you to get them into the country legally which is a shame.

RichardT10829 · #12 01-06-12, 22:59

yeah i know.... nevermind.... the carrier is coming along nicely Marc, i have just been lazy with my updates so sorry about that will have to make an effort and get some updates posted up

rob love · #13 02-06-12, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Could some of the clever buggers explain it in more detail?
Richard it would be fine for what you want.
Here is my limited knowledge on it. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.
The Barrel is from a MkI bren (Stainless flash hider)
The bipod is MkII (it is non adjustable)
A MkI has the fancy drum back sight.

The butt is off a mk2, and the carry handle is not the correct pattern. Hard to pick out other problems as the photos don't show the detail very well.

There was a CFTO in the 50s detailing the changes required to install a mk2 butt when the mk1 butts were no longer available. There was a slight difference in shape of the lower receiver extension nut.

kevin powles · #14 02-06-12, 01:13

Richard,

I have 50 empty bren mags here, I can let you have one when I see you at Beltring as I fear you may be an emotional wreck after my little 'wind up' on the data plate, I think you started to actually think I have your plate and the location of your armour just waiting to be made into bake bean tins.

sorry.......................but it still could be out there somewhere, fingers crosed.

Kev

.

Ron Pier · #15 02-06-12, 10:19

Indeed my spare barrel is an ally dummy. I had an original live barrel with lovely markings, but sold it to a gun collector for fear of getting my collar felt

Ron

RichardT10829 · #16 02-06-12, 10:31

Very Very nice Ron !!! Kev cheers for that, you should play poker, i was waiting for you to fold but credit where its due..you didnt

Ralph Volkert · #17 05-06-12, 08:42

Very nice Richard! I have got my 1942 Mk1 M Inglis Bren and it looks like yours.

I just picked up a decent Mk1 stock complete with most of the metal hardware for $70. I am planing to replace the Mk2 stock once I get home and finish cleaning the Mk1 stock. Cant believe under all that old oil/grease there is still dried mud in there!

Now here is the fun question! I dont have the 2 pieces of hardware that screw on to hold the Mk1 stock in place.

Will the single hold down nut/fitting for the Mk2 work to secure the Mk1? Or is it too long. The Mk1 stock has the upper hardare that slips over the tube to secure the Butt plate. My fear is the mk2 nut will protrude too far to allow the butt plate to snap in place.

Hans Mulder · #18 05-06-12, 21:06

On my wish list...

Ralph Volkert · #19 12-06-12, 16:24

I finally got home and put all the pieces together....The MkII hold down nut, that secures the stock to the reciever is too long to work with a MkI stock.

I think I know where to get the correct ones. failing that... I have the technology... I can MAKE it fit! LOL!

RichardT10829 · #20 12-06-12, 17:32

Sorry guys I just got back from an overseas trip so could not check for you.... How do I tell if it's an Inglis Bren infact what is an Inglis Bren hahahahaha

horsa · #21 12-06-12, 18:46

John Inglis was the producer for several weapons made in Canada including Bren guns and the Hi-Power pistols. It would say Inglis on the side as opposed to some other maker name or markings as used by ROF BSA or Enfield groups.

rob love · #22 12-06-12, 19:20

Inglis marked just about everything with a connected JI symbol. Of course, the upper receiver, as David mentioned, has the name INGLIS on the right side of the receiver as well as the model and the date.

RichardT10829 · #23 12-06-12, 20:11

Ahh mine has a capitol "E" then 1944 Mk1 on the receiver so I presume its an Enfield.

Ralph Volkert · #24 12-06-12, 23:00

A good source of info for your Bren is the site milsurps.com and goto the Bren forum!

Including cleaning and restoration tips for the woodwork and accessories.

rob love · #25 13-06-12, 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

Ahh mine has a capitol "E" then 1944 Mk1 on the receiver so I presume its an Enfield.

I believe Enfield normally used a overlapped E and a D. Inglis quit making mk1 Brens in 41 or 42. They transitioned into the mk1(m) followed by the mk2 in 43.

RichardT10829 · #26 13-06-12, 13:42

Rob. i never noticed it at first but having read your post your right, it is an E overlapped by a D (or vice versa)

so is it a Mk1m then ? i have searched the web and noticed a few on Milweb (Mk1m's) they have the same carry handle as mine

rob love · #27 13-06-12, 14:05

The Cdn Brens had the little m after the model to designate mark 1 modified. The British did not mark theirs, but yes, yours will be a modified Bren. The biggest give-away should be the absence of the extra dovetail on the left side of the body for the lensatic sight.

horsa · #28 01-07-12, 01:58

Happened to come across the parts you need for your Mark I stock Ralph. I have no connection to the vendor, just remembered your post on this thread mentioning parts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BREN-Mk-I-Re...item27c8a78b79