Kokoda

[Jon Skagfeld]

Colin Tigwell, aka herkman on this forum, was kind enough to send me a book by the marginally noted name.

Written by Peter Fitzsimons (also author "Nancy Wake"), it relates the story of a militia Battalion("Chocs"; for Chocolate soldiers) who endured incredible hardships during a campaign in New Guinea during World War II.

Despite the incompetent buffoonery of an Australian General, the disdain of a womanizing Prime Minister and the interference of an American five star General, the 39th Battalion (plus Regular Australian troops) succeeded in overcoming the bulk of Japanese troops at Buna on the north coast of the eastern tip of New Guinea after fighting up the Kokoda Track from Port Moresby.

Up until I had read this book, I had only been aware, somewhat peripherally, about such as Slim's "Forgotten" 14th Army in and about Burma.

I wonder how many of you members of MLU, apart from the "Down Under" mob, have ever heard of Kokoda?

Perhaps you might be prompted to google or otherwise search this fascinating item of battle about which, I for one, had no prior knowledge.

[cliff]

In the news here about Kokoda is that a mining company, believed to be Australian, has obtained the mining leases on most if not all the area containing the track and folk are worried that mining may spell the end of the track dispite assurances from the company that it will not happen. Apparently the area may contain a lot of gold.

Cheers
Cliff

[johnnyroad]

Sorry about the tardy response; I spend my summers north of sixty, without computer access and only sporadically attend these most interesting sites.
Re the Kokoda campaign, there is at least one other published description of this series of dreadful and critical battles. It appeared in the fifties and was written by Raymond Paul under the title "Retreat from Kokoda" - originally printed by Heinemann in 1958, with a Panther paper back put out in 1960.
As you say, the performance of the Aussie Infantry in this fighting seems to be second to none during the whole of the second world war and should be appropriately known.
About five years ago I remember seeing (in "Legion" magazine) the per capita casualty figures for all of the participating Western Nations involved in the last war and was surprised to find that the only nation with a higher per capita loss rate than Canada was Australia.
In a related book dealing with the New Guinea fighting, (Bloody Buna by Lida Mayo) the point was raised that it was the Aussies who inflicted the first categorical land defeat on the Japanese after Pearl Harbour, when they crushed the landings at Milne Bay.
It's clear that they suffer from the same handicap as we do, that of being overshadowed by the "big brothers", U.K. and U.S.A.
Paul's account was spellbinding and I'll look for the Fitzsimons book to read more about this terrible campaign.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by johnnyroad
In a related book dealing with the New Guinea fighting, (Bloody Buna by Lida Mayo) the point was raised that it was the Aussies who inflicted the first categorical land defeat on the Japanese after Pearl Harbour, when they crushed the landings at Milne Bay.

It is also not often recognised that the Australians were the first to defeat the German tactic of Blitzkreig in being able to resist and frustrate Rommel at Tobruk, in several repeated thrusts and attacks. Tobruk held for 18 months, although by the time it fell, the Aussies had left and Rommel was in the early stages of his long fighting retreat to Tunisia. This is the first time in the war that the Germans weren't able to overcome and take a specifically chosen target, and earnt the Australians Rommel's grudging respect as "Perhaps the finest soldiers in any army in the world".
(PS Peter Fitzsimmon's 2nd book is on Tobruk and is nearly twice as thick as his "Kokoda".)

[Max Hedges]

The book Kokoda by Paul Ham I found to be a good read as throughtout the years I have heard stories from the old diggees and a lot of those stories were in the book. Another book is those ragged bloody heros by peter brune which mainly deals with the 39th battalion and the 21st brigade along the kokoda track to teh gona beach. Another one I have looked at is a bastard of a plac also by Peter Brune about the australians in Papua at kokoda, milne bay, gona, buna and sanananda. Jon if you would like any of these books matthew from mount forest is coming to australia in february we could possibly arrange to get one back to you.

Max

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Despite the incompetent buffoonery of an Australian General, the disdain of a womanizing Prime Minister and the interference of an American five star General, the 39th Battalion (plus Regular Australian troops) succeeded in overcoming the bulk of Japanese troops at Buna on the north coast of the eastern tip of New Guinea after fighting up the Kokoda Track from Port Moresby.

The descriptions of some of the major characters is a little mixed about.
Prime Minister John Curtin, despite being a union leader and pacifist who strongly opposed conscription in WW1, found the times required Australia to muster every man possible and he allowed conscription and Militia forces to fight overseas. The 39th Bn were one such militia Battalion who were able, through excellent team spirit and a leavening of experienced AIF officers, to perform magnificently despite savage losses. PM Curtin was devoted to his wife Elsie and could not be said to be a womaniser by any stretch. John Curtin was never military minded and had to rely on advice from US Gen D Macarthur and Aust Gen Blamey on such matters.

Gen Macarthur was a vain egoist who was more interested in his political ambitions rather that his military responsibilities. He insisted on total censorship of all Australian media and was the only source of "News" from the front. The Australian military was required to pass all reports through him, and from him to the Govt and the media. Despite never seeing the front lines during the Japanese advance (His HQ was in Brisbane, 2000km south of New Guinea), he continued to denounce the fighting by Australians while demonstrating little understanding of the conditions or the fighting going on.

The Aust General Blamey was your womaniser. Before the war, Thomas Blamey was Victoria's Police Commissioner and was reputed to have been caught in a Police raid on a (illegal) Brothel. He used his influence to have his identity hidden in the Police report. In North Africa, he was the only soldier of any rank to be allowed to have his wife accompany him to a theatre of war, while still actively "contributing to" the brothels of Cairo. He was immensly disliked by the troops in New Guinea who regarded him as comtemptous of lower ranks, while he was seen to be grovelling to Macarthur and Curtin. His "Koitaki" address ( in the foothills of the mountains) to the returned weary, sick and emaciated troops of the Kokoda campaign could have ended very differently had the Aussies heard of the term "Fragging", a concept made popular 20 odd years later by the US in Vietnam.

[Mike Kelly]

Years ago I met a fellow who worked on Blameys aircraft ( A Lockheed Loadstar or similar ? ), based at Essendon airport during the war . According to this chap I met , Blamey would turn up at Essendon with his band of hangers on , secretary , etc. It was the norm for Blamey to be pissed .

His favourite thing was to go up North to N.G. and sack the most able commanders in the field . Rowell being the most noted Gen. he sacked .

Mike

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by Max Hedges
The book Kokoda by Paul Ham I found to be a good read as throughtout the years I have heard stories from the old diggees and a lot of those stories were in the book. Another book is those ragged bloody heros by peter brune which mainly deals with the 39th battalion and the 21st brigade along the kokoda track to teh gona beach. Another one I have looked at is a bastard of a plac also by Peter Brune about the australians in Papua at kokoda, milne bay, gona, buna and sanananda. Jon if you would like any of these books matthew from mount forest is coming to australia in february we could possibly arrange to get one back to you.

Max

Max...keep me in mind WRT Matt's visit, and the possibility of getting more books about this campaign.

Everything worked out well the last time...(grease gun, Tim Tams, Slouch hat ).

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Everything worked out well the last time...(grease gun, Tim Tams, Slouch hat ).

You big meanie you, Jon

I'm still confused about this slouch hat thing though. Did someone send one to Master Sunray via you and you've refused to part with it because the made you do it? Or does it not exist? Can someone in the know enlighten me please?

Ma Yappy

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
You big meanie you, Jon

I'm still confused about this slouch hat thing though. Did someone send one to Master Sunray via you and you've refused to part with it because the made you do it? Or does it not exist? Can someone in the know enlighten me please?

Ma Yappy

"Unmitigated bastard" requests Sunray's response.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Errrrggghhh... where did this come from?? I'm ...

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Errrrggghhh... where did this come from?? I'm ...

...from Yappy.

Read up a line or two.

[Max Hedges]

yes ma the hat does exist somewhere over there, it went from Tony to here to Michael to Canada and seems to have disappeared after that along with the tim tams. The tim tams I believe are in someones freezer and maybe preserved forever. It was a lovely looking hat.

Max

Originally posted by Max Hedges
yes ma the hat does exist somewhere over there, it went from Tony to here to Michael to Canada and seems to have disappeared after that along with the tim tams. The tim tams I believe are in someones freezer and maybe preserved forever. It was a lovely looking hat.

Max

I know where the Tim Tam's landed but wasn't able to get to Owen Sound to enjoy them, now I'm way the other end of the country, and I would assume and hope that the Great Keepers of the Tim Tams' would have enjoyed consuming them before they went "off" in the freezer. (I can't seem to get very far without my dogsled. Don't know where the hell those dogs have gone ARF ARF! )

As to the Great Mystery of the Slouch Hat ...

Once upon a time
From a land far away
There came a slouch hat
With a very G'Day
But the damned hat
It did go astray ...

Or did it?

Yappy Ponders the Mystery of the Great Slouch Hat and ...

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Seeing as how THREADJACKER (TM) seems to have taken control of this thread, praytell how do those of Oz measure headsize? I mean, if one were to want to order a hat from Downunder, how would he specify size so that your fellow Antipodeans would understand and assimilate?

Uh oh ... now here comes trouble.

Better hope they make some of them hats

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX LARGE

Ma

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

You'd be able to sleep inside an XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX LARGE hat...

Me and my Buffalo

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Seeing as how THREADJACKER (TM) seems to have taken control of this thread, praytell how do those of Oz measure headsize? I mean, if one were to want to order a hat from Downunder, how would he specify size so that your fellow Antipodeans would understand and assimilate?

Go visit Jon and try on his, then you will know if you need one bigger or smaller. If it fits perfectly, RUN LIKE HELL!

What measurement hatsize would you take in Canuckimetres??

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Go visit Jon and try on his, then you will know if you need one bigger or smaller. If it fits perfectly, RUN LIKE HELL!

What measurement hatsize would you take in Canuckimetres??

LMAO!! And he even let slip where he's hidden it...

We still use the old measurements for clothing, including hats. My berets and my Tilley hat are all 7 1/8. Have you gone metric like those sodding Yurrupeens?

[Rusty]

Use the Last remanent of the British Empire, the "imperial measurement" and multiply by 25.4 You will now have a modern day measurement suitable to order a quality Hat.

[Tony Smith]

Unfortunately, the 7 1/8 size is a diameter measurement from the forehead to the Frypan target at the back of the head, while Akubra's Metric measurements are a circumference. So to translate to an approximate figure, we multiply the diameter by Pi to get a circumferential figure, then multiply by 2.54 to convert to cm.
7.125 x 3.14159 x 2.54 = 56.85cm

Of course, heads aren't round, so this is not a perfect conversion. If this is all too hard to work out in that egg-shaped head, go to this conversion website!

Originally posted by Tony Smith Of course, heads aren't round, so this is not a perfect conversion. If this is all too hard to work out in that egg-shaped head, go to this conversion website! [/B]

Hmmmmmm ... so what about for POINTY heads? Perhaps a patriotic something like this?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Unfortunately, the 7 1/8 size is a diameter measurement from the forehead to the Frypan target at the back of the head, while Akubra's Metric measurements are a circumference. So to translate to an approximate figure, we multiply the diameter by Pi to get a circumferential figure, then multiply by 2.54 to convert to cm.
7.125 x 3.14159 x 2.54 = 56.85cm

I just KNEW all of you down there were out of your minds. Now I know why.

I think I'll strip nekkid and put on some battledress now. Where's my tin hat??

[cliff]

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Hmmmmmm ... so what about for POINTY heads? Perhaps a patriotic something like this?

hmmmmm shouldn't it have a D printed on the front

Darn now who said that