Who Can Id this truck?

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Rob Morrison just sent this along to me and neither of us can ID it any thoughts

picture link

The picture is for sale on e-bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:EF:US:1123

Cheers Phil

[Alex van de Wetering]

That has to be one of the Chevrolet CMP prototypes! Colin McGregor Stevens had pics of one or two prototypes on his website.

Edit: http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/Chevrolet...37_pattern.jpg
source: http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/cmp_canad...ry_pattern.htm

Alex

[maple_leaf_eh]

I was thinking the same thing, that the truck is one of the early pre-war prototypes before settling on the CMP concept. The 1938(?) Ontario licence plate kind of confirms the theory.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

You just got to love MLU in under two hours you provide to two IDs for the truck. With confirmation from two continents at that.

Now the next question is somebody going to buy the photo and add it to the collective knowledge base?

Cheers Phil

[Mark W. Tonner]

Phil;

The truck in question belongs to 'B' Company of The Royal Canadian Regiment, one of the three pre war Permanent Active Militia infantry regiments. 'B' Company was stationed at Stanley Barracks in Toronto, Ontario. Stanley Barracks was located in the Canadian National Exhibition grounds (Toronto), adjacent to the Automotive Building.

Cheers

[Bob Carriere]

Deed is done.....

Bob C

[servicepub (RIP)]

Damn! Just saw this and would have bought it in a flash.

Clive

(Bob, any chance of a scan for use in Das Buch?)

[r.morrison]

Clive: I've contacted the seller in reference to the photo. His listing states it's a reprint from the original negative. He may have the original negative, in which I don't think you'd have a problem buying a copy. Fingers crossed, I'll keep you posted.....Robert

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by r.morrison

Clive: I've contacted the seller in reference to the photo. His listing states it's a reprint from the original negative. He may have the original negative, in which I don't think you'd have a problem buying a copy. Fingers crossed, I'll keep you posted.....Robert

Robert, thanks. May be worth asking if there are others from the series.

Cheers,
Clive

[servicepub (RIP)]

Can't figure how anyone found this. The seller placed it in WWI German items!

C

[r.morrison]

Good point Clive to see what else he may have in his vault. I'll check that out. I'll get the details and put him on to you. For your information, I found this on ebay under "Vickers Militaria". He had it on last month, but no buyers, timing is everything. Stay tuned

[Bob Carriere]

... I got it ...... you can use it. Just wanted to make sure it stayed in the right hands.

The print on Ebay looked very sharp. Should be no problem reproducing it for publication..... besides I usually post everything on MLU for the collective good of our hobby.

Bob

[r.morrison]

Clive, as the elephant said to the mouse, "Dis yo' lucky day". Had a nice chat withe the seller tonight and he HAS the original negative. Actually, he said he might have some better negatives of the truck. I've asked him to stay in touch with the other photos. He also has a whack of negatives from the Irish Regiment that you might be interested in, along with a lot of other little interesting tidbits. Probably a guy you should stay in touch with. I'll PM you his email address and you can take it from there. Good luck.....Robert PS: Nice one BooBee.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Bob and Robert (sounds redundant), Thanks to both of you. I have sent the vendor an e-mail asking about this, and other, photos.

Cheers,
Clive

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bob

When I posted the picture in the post of this thread I did it as a link to the e-bay site. Now that you own it should I post it as a direct image so it stays in the MLU archive?

You got to love the internet just when you think you won't find something new stuff like this shows up.

Cheers Phil

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

When I posted the picture in the post of this thread I did it as a link to the e-bay site. Now that you own it should I post it as a direct image so it stays in the MLU archive?

Phil,

You know my preference! ;-)

Hanno

[servicepub (RIP)]

The first comment to be made in regards to the photo is that the 15cwt is NOT a pilot or prototype but an actual production model. The short article below may provide some clarification.

Pre-war Chevrolet 15cwt in the Canadian Army

My research has uncovered the following information on the first purchases of the Chev 15cwt. The data is culled from surveys of vehicles, by Military District, which include the census number and the vehicle description.
In the future I hope to compile data on the early Fords also.

As of February 5, 1940, DND reported holdings of 62, 15cwt trucks, of various bodies. This total included two Pilot models.

It should be noted that only MGO (Master General of the Ordnance) vehicles were subject to the survey. Vehicles operated by the Royal Canadian Army Service Corps are not included.

The vehicles, although numbered in the 1938 year were delivered in 1939. The disparity in the numbering may be due to the fact that the contract was let in Fiscal Year 1938-39, which ended on March 31, 1939. With the late date of the contract the numbers were still allotted to the 1938 ‘year’ but deliveries were made throughout 1939.

It is my belief that the numbering started with 1938-1-2-and ended with 1938-1-52, resulting in 51 vehicles. This fits with the order of 51 total 15cwt vehicles which, originally, were to be split between Chevrolet and Ford. Ford declined to deliver any vehicles so the entire contract was let to Chevrolet with the understanding that the next order of 50 vehicles would be directed to Ford only.

The breakdown of these is;

Census No. --- Holding Unit --- Description
38-1-14 --- Cdn Armd Fighting Veh Trg Ctre --- Chevrolet GS Body
38-1-15 --- Cdn Armd Fighting Veh Trg Ctre --- Chevrolet GS Body
38-1-17 --- Cdn Armd Fighting Veh Trg Ctre --- Chevrolet GS Body

38-1-31 --- Royal Canadian Dragoons --- Chevrolet GS Body
38-1-9 --- Royal Canadian Dragoons --- Chevrolet GS Body
38-1-12 --- Royal Canadian Dragoons --- Chevrolet GS Body
38-1-3 --- Royal Canadian Dragoons --- Chevrolet GS Body

38-1-14 --- RCA Depot, Kingston --- Chevrolet GS Body
38-1-15 --- RCA Depot, Kingston --- Chevrolet GS Body
38-1-16 --- RCA Depot, Kingston --- Chevrolet GS Body
38-1-17 --- RCA Depot, Kingston --- Chevrolet GS Body

38-1-27 --- ‘A’ Sqdn, RCD --- GM GS Body

38-1-2 --- MD 4 (“probably at Inf Trg Ctre”) --- Chevrolet 15cwt Body
38-1-4 --- MD 4 (“probably at Inf Trg Ctre”) --- Chevrolet 15cwt Body
38-1-10 --- MD 4 (“probably at Inf Trg Ctre”) --- Chevrolet 15cwt Body
38-1-11 --- MD 4 (“probably at Inf Trg Ctre”) --- Chevrolet 15cwt Body
38-1-28 --- MD 4 (“probably at Inf Trg Ctre”) --- Chevrolet 15cwt Body
38-1-29 --- MD 4 (“probably at Inf Trg Ctre”) --- Chevrolet 15cwt Body
38-1-30 --- MD 4 (“probably at Inf Trg Ctre”) --- Chevrolet 15cwt Body

38-1-36 --- 1st Fld Coy, RCE, Halifax --- Chevrolet 15cwt Box Body

38-1-35 --- 8th Med Bty, RCA, Charlottetown --- Chevrolet

38-1-37 --- 2nd Med Bty, RCA, Charlottetown --- Chevrolet

38-1-23 --- 4th AA Bty, RCA, Halifax --- Chevrolet
38-1-25 --- 4th AA Bty, RCA, Halifax --- Chevrolet

38-1-38 --- PPCLI Depot School --- GMC Chevrolet
38-1-39 --- PPCLI Depot School --- GMC Chevrolet
38-1-41 --- PPCLI Depot School --- GMC Chevrolet
38-1-42 --- PPCLI Depot School --- GMC Chevrolet
38-1-43 --- PPCLI Depot School --- GMC Chevrolet
38-1-44 --- PPCLI Depot School --- GMC Chevrolet

38-1-40 --- LdSH (RC) --- Chevrolet GMC

38-1-45 --- Seaforth Highlanders of Canada --- GMC GS Box Body
38-1-46 --- Seaforth Highlanders of Canada --- GMC GS Box Body
38-1-47 --- Seaforth Highlanders of Canada --- GMC GS Box Body
38-1-48 --- Seaforth Highlanders of Canada --- GMC GS Box Body

38-1-49 --- LdSH (RC) (Rec’d 28 Dec 1939) --- GMC
38-1-50 --- LdSH (RC) (Rec’d 28 Dec 1939) --- GMC
38-1-51 --- LdSH (RC) (Rec’d 28 Dec 1939) --- GMC
38-1-52 --- LdSH (RC) (Rec’d 28 Dec 1939) --- GMC


Thanks to Robert, who put me in touch with the vendor of the photo at the top of this thread, I managed to buy another photo of this vehicle.

[Bob Carriere]

I only bought the picture so that it would not be lost somewhere.

And yes it can be posted on MLU...I lay no claim of ownership.... to me it is precious Canadian MV history to be shared with everyone in the hobby.

The number on the box looks like 38-1-10 to my failing eye sight......

Which reminds me, I still have not received my photo in the mail yet...... unless my request to mail to my home address got overlooked and it is sitting at the UPS store in Northern NY... such is life.

Comments on the truck..... I am always amazed at the boxy backyard mechanic design of the cab ....... so butt ugly it's gone full circle to being cute ....

I wonder what happend to the one sitting for sale at Reynolds out West.... I would just love to restore one of those babies.

Bob C.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by servicepub

The first comment to be made in regards to the photo is that the 15cwt is NOT a pilot or prototype but an actual production model. The short article below may provide some clarification. . .

The breakdown of these is;

Census No. --- Holding Unit --- Description
38-1-10 --- MD 4 (“probably at Inf Trg Ctre”) --- Chevrolet 15cwt Body

Clive;

Odd that 38-1-10 is shown as held by MD 4, when the vehicle is clearly marked, as belonging to ‘B’ Coy RCR, which in 1939 was stationed at Stanley Barracks, Toronto, in MD 2.

Cheers

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

Clive;

Odd that 38-1-10 is shown as held by MD 4, when the vehicle is clearly marked, as belonging to ‘B’ Coy RCR, which in 1939 was stationed at Stanley Barracks, Toronto, in MD 2.

Cheers

The vehicle surveys were taken in October '39 and Feb '40. As the truck is plated 1938 so it was probably in MD 2 then.
C

[r.morrison]

Glad things worked out for you Clive. Hopefully you'll get a few more photos from the owner. Cheers....Robert

[aj.lec]

I am glad they ended up changing the styling for production

That is one ugly duckling with not much hope of a swan emerging

[Alex van de Wetering]

am glad they ended up changing the styling for production

That is one ugly duckling with not much hope of a swan emerging

Definately! Although I'd love to hear why they changed the nose to the more subtle 11cab as the original design seems to be much simpler and less labour intensive to build(?). Maybe it had to do with the view from the drivers seat???


@ Clive. Awesome info and thanks for posting it on MLU. So, no protoype....but an actual first production series.

Alex

[GJG]

This looks like the first CMP prototype shown in MLU softskin photos.
Gaétan

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi All

Rob Morrison just sent this along to me and neither of us can ID it any thoughts

picture link

The picture is for sale on e-bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:EF:US:1123

Cheers Phil

[GJG]

Originally Posted by aj.lec

I am glad they ended up changing the styling for production

That is one ugly duckling with not much hope of a swan emerging

Yes. Typical american pickup layout with more space for the engine than the cargo. Glad that the British insisted on the "British-Canadian pattern" and we ended up with a cab-over design. For the swan parents, look in "MLU Vehicle Softskin Early" for the Morris truck which is quite near the cab-over.
Gaétan

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by GJG

This look like first CMP prototype shown in MLU softskin photos.

Hi GJG
We try to use first names here so that we know with whom we are speaking.
Thanks for joining MLU and making your first posts. I am not sure why you say that this is a prototype when my list, posted above, clearly shows that it is a pre "DND Pattern" production vehicle?
In fact, it is almost a common commercial vehicle with a few spec changes requested by DND, prior to developing a CMP standard.

Clive

[GJG]

Originally Posted by servicepub

Hi GJG
We try to use first names here so that we know with whom we are speaking.
Thanks for joining MLU and making your first posts. I am not sure why you say that this is a prototype when my list, posted above, clearly shows that it is a pre "DND Pattern" production vehicle?
In fact, it is almost a common commercial vehicle with a few spec changes requested by DND, prior to developing a CMP standard.

Clive

Hi Clive
It's just a reference to "MLU CMP Softskin Vehicles" stating that development started in 1935, with Ford participation in 1937 then GM 1938. In MLU photo album "Early CMPs", you can see the photo of a prototype and the two photos of 1940 Morris commercial truck which is very close to a cab-over design. Your list certainly proved that a small run of trucks with different bodies were produced in 1938 or 1939 and not only one prototype.
Gaétan

[rob love]

I am reviving an older thread here, but on this vein of topic, does anyone know of any of these trucks that have survived? We had someone come in to the museum this weekend asking, and he has provided a photo of his, located in Saskatchewan.

At least 4 (out of 50 produced) of the Ford 1939 pilot models have survived, so is it only 1 of 51 for the 1938 early production chevys? The owner thinks there is at least one more.

Once I talk to him, I will see if he is agreeable to having me scan and post the photo of his.

Colin's site mentions one in Vimy house at the CWM. Is anybody connected to their collection and can comment?