MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Softskin Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 17-12-21, 23:11
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Colbert, Washington, USA
Posts: 2,208
Default

Hi Jacques,

Those early Ford Cab 13 CMPs are a mixed lot before the local production was streamlined and the amount (and method) of import v local parts were sorted out. Further along in the same book, 55401 was a fully-imported Canadian-built F15 with a '99TF' prefix number stamped on the gearbox, and when I got it, an Army-replacement engine 2G37711F, with that number stamped on the flat of the engine block. There was no stamping on the chassis rail.

Not come across any wartime Aust Ford-assembled vehicles that don't have the engine/transmission number stamped on the flat of the chassis rail, and I've had several over the years (IIY, 01T, F15A, Dingo), but 'never say never', as the saying goes. Others with a greater range of personal experience than mine might like to contribute their observations to this discussion.

Nevertheless, the main thrust of my comment was that, to be precise, the 'G' is an engine and transmission combination indicator, not an engine number alone.


Mike
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 18-12-21, 05:55
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,161
Default

According to the F60L parts manual, the Cab 13 was introduced at serial 21566. Your serial (25938) seems to be about 4372 down the line, which is surprising that they pumped out that many in less than a month.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 31-12-21, 14:01
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default Edward Bros Tipper

Guys, I concur on the 42 verses the 41 year of production and it would appear that the engine/transmission matches the ID tag. I guess I will be celebrating an 80th Birthday on Tuesday for the F60S!
Now that I have the box off of the frame, I have been able to look more closely at the hydraulic lift mechanism. According to the brass name plate, it is an Edwards Bros (Tipper) Ltd. from Bolton, near Manchester, UK. Considering that it looks to be a professional installation, the aluminum hydraulic pump unit bolts into the air pump housing location on the transmission, up and down hoist activation left is located through the floorboard on the left side of the driver's seat. My question to the MLU gurus is, did Edwards Bros sell their hoists in Canada? I would think it a bit odd and expensive for a Canadian made F60S to go to the UK to have a civilian hoist installed on it and then have it shipped back to Canada for post war service. As always, comments welcome.
Attached Thumbnails
EdBroTpr - 1.jpg   EdBroTpr - 2.jpeg   EdBroTpr - 4.jpeg   EdBroTpr - 5.jpeg   EdwBroTip.jpeg  

__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 31-12-21, 17:28
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,101
Default S/m or c/d 2177

Hi Richard.

That is the first data plate I have ever seen referencing a CMP built to fulfill two possible Contracts. Is it possible to track that contract down to see what it is all about?

My feeble thought at the moment is if that vehicle was indeed built 5 January 1942, the Battle of the Atlantic was peaking between January and July 1942 in terms of shipping losses suffered. Maybe two identical contracts were combined, the thought being anything intended for England would still be used to complete the Canadian Contract if shipping came to a halt.

Second point. Post war England was broke and any manufacturing would be working flat out to sell product anywhere they could in the Commonwealth. Edward Brothers would have been very familiar with CMP’s and it would have been nothing for them to custom design their Tipper Kits for any Ford or Chevrolet CMP and ship it anywhere for local installation. By todays standards, postwar shipping was cheap. Lots of cargo/freighters heading everywhere. The ad you posted shows distributors for this product across the UK. They probably had a Canadian distributor as well.

So you probably have a very unusual CMP, built at an interesting time during the war, that stayed in Canada and got a very interesting civilian conversion in its post war life. You lucky guy!

David
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-01-22, 11:54
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 13,414
Default

All in all a very interesting truck. I think we agree the delivery date is a miss strike, as stated by Keith ten years ago.

Edbro has been around since 1916 and they still thrive: https://www.edbro.com/en/profile.html
They did deliver tippers during WW2, but mostly on British trucks IIRC. Reading that they always exported conversion kits, I think this is most likely a postwar conversion.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-01-22, 13:36
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default Post War LSVW F-60S

Guys, thanks again for your comments, all of this information helps to fill in the back history on this truck. The end goal is to convert it into a Tipper LSVW (Dave St. Laurent pics from 2016) using as many as possible authentic CMP components. It would appear that I have almost everything that I need to complete this conversion/restoration so I'm hoping to "get 'er done" in the next 3 months. I will continue to update my progress on MLU.
Attached Thumbnails
LSVW-Side.jpeg   LSVW-Front.jpeg  
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-01-22, 21:55
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default Flathead Turning Over

Only -30 here this morning, good day for working in the shop.
I drained the oil out of the flathead last week, it wasn't terrible but I'm glad I did it. New oil is going in this week - just a 10W30 for now. I pulled the plugs out and stuck in the hand crank after cleaning out the air intake. It had some old bugs, maple tree seeds and other bits and pieces of dirt. With the hand crank, I was able to turn the engine over. After refilling with oil, I will hand crank it a few more times.
The battery cables look almost original, they are hard and cracked. I am going to replace them so I have a GOOD POSITIVE Ground and a reliable NEGATIVE connection to the starter solenoid. Once I have the starter working, I will do a compression test on each one of the cylinders.
Attached Thumbnails
Startrc - 1.jpg   Startrc - 2.jpg   Startr - 5.jpg  
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-01-22, 22:05
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default DS Floor Boards

Ok, getting to the starter solenoid isn't as easy as it sounds. Since I'm not ready to take the cab off yet, I have decided to pull up the floorboard under the seat. Seat was easy to remove but the countersunk floorboard screws didn't look they have been removed for a good 80 years or so. Anyways, lots of penetrating oil, heat and the good old drill out on the diehards and the floorboard is now removed. I want to make sure the starter solenoid works properly and that I have good power to the coil and the dash.
Question - what is the round knob connected to a little change that goes through the chassis rail above the battery and underneath the driver's side of the cab?
Attached Thumbnails
Startr - 1.jpg   Startr - 2.jpg   Startr - 3.jpg   Startr - 4.jpg  
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-01-22, 23:18
Tony Smith's Avatar
Tony Smith Tony Smith is offline
No1, Mk 2** (I'm back!)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lithgow, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCam View Post
Question - what is the round knob connected to a little change that goes through the chassis rail above the battery and underneath the driver's side of the cab?
It's the connection for the flexible tyre inflation hose.

On Ford trucks, the PTO Air Compressor was fitted to the right side of the gearbox, so the air line and connection were on the RHS chassis rail (Chev vehicles had these on the LHS).
Attached Thumbnails
Air pump.jpg   Air pipe.jpg   Air fitting.jpg  
__________________
You can help Keep Mapleleafup Up! See Here how you can help, and why you should!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-01-22, 03:20
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default Airline Connection

Thanks Tony, that makes perfect sense. If I am not wrong, the aftermarket hydraulic pump has been installed in place of the PTO air compressor but I will check when I am back in the shop.
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-03-22, 22:03
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default F60S Progress Update - Starter Motor Relay

On and off, I have been working on the F60S over the winter. To date, I have replaced the 6V battery, added a battery bracket, rewired power to the starter, relocated the Starter Motor Relay from the frame channel (that is a nasty place to get at) to under the driver seat against the vertical mudguard. New wires have been run up to the dash for the starter button and I am know working my way through the ignition system. I am going to install an ignition key. Engine turns over with the starter, I can get spark from the coil but I am now into the guts of the points, condenser and spark plug wires. I will post pictures shortly.
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-03-22, 22:45
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default F60S Speedometer and Cable

In order to make a roadworthy F60S LSVW, I need to have some functional instruments and a working speedometer. I have taken out the dash and removed the instrument cluster. It is now on its way to Cushman Speedometer Repair in Wichita to get rebuilt. Unfortunately, this truck never had an operating speedometer. There isn't a cable and there isn't a gear case housing for the cable to connect to. If anyone knows, please advise me where to look on either the transfer case (large without PTO) or transmission as to where a gear case housing might be located or should be mounted. Cheers!
Attached Thumbnails
F60InstrP - 1.jpg   F60InstrP - 2.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 42Ford CMP Truck.pdf (1.48 MB, 4 views)
File Type: pdf 42Ford LG Trnsfr Case.pdf (1.35 MB, 6 views)
File Type: pdf 42Ford Transmission.pdf (957.4 KB, 3 views)
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-03-22, 03:52
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 3,824
Default

Richard

The red circled parts are for a speedometer cable hook up.
Attached Thumbnails
2F54B3FE-1471-4122-8B28-42F7BEFE1F73.jpeg  
__________________
Jordan Baker
RHLI Museum,
Otter LRC
C15A-Wire3, 1944
Willys MB, 1942
10cwt Canadian trailer
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-03-22, 15:19
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default Found - 17271 & 17277

Jordan, thank you very much for clarifying where to look on the transfer case. With 80 years of grim, grease and muck, you have prevented me from just lying there on my back, aimlessly looking up, wondering "where in the *&^% is it?". Here is 1721 and 17277 scraped off and wire brushed. Further cleaning will commence once I get back to that area with a new speedo cable.
Attached Thumbnails
F60Spdo - 1.jpg  
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-03-22, 02:40
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default Productive Friday - power to the coil

I swapped out the older dual 6V batteries for a new 6V battery and fashioned a battery bracket to hold it in place. Added a battery (positive ground) disconnect but I need to paint that knob red. Starter solenoid is now more accessible from the driver's side step. Took the voltage regulator, ignition resistor and circuit breaker out of the dash, cleaned out dust, dirt and cobwebs, sanded the contacts, double checked continuity with a meter and reassembled. I am adding an ignition key into the coil circuit so we have a bit of security. New wires are being run from the starter solenoid to the cab terminal strip and from there to the voltage regulator, key, ignition resistor and then over to the coil. Push button for starter solenoid is now functional. Distributor cap is off, inspecting points, condenser, coil wire and spark plug wires. Will look at setting up timing to make sure I have proper spark at the correct plug. More next week!
Attached Thumbnails
IgnPanel - 4.jpg   IgnPanel - 1.jpg   IgnPanel - 2.jpg   IgnPanel - 3.jpg   IgnPanel - 5.jpg  

__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 16-03-22, 04:04
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default 6V Trumpet Horn

Guys, do you know if this is a 6V positive ground Trumpet Horn? If not, can it be used instead? As well, does anyone have a service manual or schematic (feel free to post or PM me) for the horn so I can give it a go and if it works, stick it into the F-60S? As always, comments, opinions and answers are always appreciated! Cheers, Richard
Attached Thumbnails
TrpHrn - 1.jpg   TrpHrn - 2.jpg   TrpHrn - 3.jpg  
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 16-03-22, 08:33
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
VMVC & Early Ford V8 Club
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 785
Default Ford CMP Horn- adjustment

Hi Richard,

There is not much info on the horn that I have found. Nothing in the Maintenance Manual. Your internals looks similar to my original Cab 13 horn. There is a condenser fitted to prevent arcing at the make and break contact similar to the condenser used at the points.

The only adjustments you can make is to move the two nuts so that the contacts open and close rapidly to vibrate the diaphragm. The outer one is just a jam nut to prevent the inner nut from moving.
From memory I think you can also adjust the position of the laminated bar relative to the coil. It must not touch coil but not so far away as to not be pulled by the coil.

Basically if there is no sound, the diaphragm is not vibrating so move the inner nut until it does then lock it with the outer one. It is Science 101 basically- How a doorbell works, but a diaphragm substituted for a striker.
If no sound after doing that then perhaps the coil is burnt out or the laminate bar needs to be moved. Polarity should not matter.
Hope this helps.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_0125.JPG  
__________________
F-15A 1943 Battery Staff

Jacques Reed
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 16-03-22, 16:29
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
Junior Password Gnome
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 765
Default

...and clean the contacts!

An oxide layer on those will prevent any current flow and thus no sound out.

Chris. (I have a Klaxon horn which currently reads "open circuit" due to this. It's in pieces while I try to clean the contacts.)
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 17-03-22, 01:31
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default Ford Horns

Hello Jacques and Chris,
Thank you for the directional information and with a bit more YouTube information, I was able to get started. I disassembled the horn further and I checked the continuity of the resistor and the armature, both were good. I cleaned and adjusted the contacts and then I applied some power. First was a small 6V lantern battery but it didn't have enough amps. I tried a bigger 6V battery from the truck and all it did was start to smoke the resistor. I finally tried a 12V battery on the off chance and it started to smoke the resistor as well. The diaphragm moves up and down with my fingers but it appears that the armature might be pooched. Unfortunately, this is not a mission critical component so I have parked it off to the side now. Back into the points, condenser and distributor timing.
__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 17-03-22, 02:09
RichCam's Avatar
RichCam RichCam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntsville, Ontario
Posts: 384
Default F-60S Points, Condenser & Timing

I have reinstalled the dash minus the instrument panel so that I could begin wiring the ignition circuit. I have installed an ignition key and I have it wired from the battery, up to the terminal strip, TS to the key, key to the ignition resistor, IR to the coil. I have flipped over the ignition resistor, voltage regulator and circuit breaker so I can work on them looking down instead of working on them looking up under the dash. The old condenser was blown and the old wiring was just a rats nest of parts, bits and pieces that was all held together with Marr connectors and black tape. I have cleaned the points, adjusted the gap, stripped, cleaned and greased the housing, reassembled and have it now in the timing jig. Tomorrow, I will follow the instructions and set up the timing. I hope to get everything reinstalled and then I can see if I get consistent spark. If I can get spark, some compression and some fuelled air, I just might have a bit of combustion!
Attached Thumbnails
PntsCdn - 1.jpg   PntsCdn - 2.jpg   PntsCdn - 3.jpg   PntsCdn - 4.jpg   PntsCdn - 5.jpg  

__________________
Richard Hatkoski
1940 CMP C11 C-8 (Restoring)
1940 CMP C11 F-15A (Parts)
1941 CMP C12 C-15A (Parts)
1942 CMP C13 F-60S Dumper (Restoring)
2 x 1941 CMP C12 F-GT (Storage)
194? CMP C13 C-60X (For Sale)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016