Iltis and M101. Ready for Coe Hill

servicepub (RIP) · #1 26-08-12, 20:15

Finally have my Iltis (Ambulance model) plated and on the road, as well as the trailer. I hope to have these at both Coe Hill (Sept 1) and the Gatineau airport (Sept 15) as well as my books available for sale.

Mark W. Tonner · #2 26-08-12, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub

Finally have my Iltis (Ambulance model) plated and on the road, as well as the trailer. I hope to have these at both Coe Hill (Sept 1) and the Gatineau airport . . .

Oh, so you have your mobile sleeper and bathtub ready for road trips, do you . . .

servicepub (RIP) · #3 26-08-12, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

Oh, so you have your mobile sleeper and bathtub ready for road trips, do you . . .

Can you spell hot tub party?

Mark W. Tonner · #4 26-08-12, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub

Can you spell hot tub party?

Oh, so you have a Herman Nelson, as well . . .

maple_leaf_eh · #5 26-08-12, 23:22

That is a M416 trailer not a M100. The differences are there, but the angular fenders are the first giveaway.

But, that is a surefire great place to lug around cases of Service Pub books and pamphlets!

servicepub (RIP) · #6 27-08-12, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

That is a M416 trailer not a M100. The differences are there, but the angular fenders are the first giveaway.

But, that is a surefire great place to lug around cases of Service Pub books and pamphlets!

Made by Dew Engineering and clearly marked as M101. What is an M416?

rob love · #7 27-08-12, 01:09

The trailer is a M101Cdn2. The Cdn 2 is important because that is what seperates it from a 3/4 tom M101.

The M416 is the matching trailer to the M151 series of jeep. (yeah I know, a mutt ain't a jeep, but it is.) They have the same rectangular fenders as the M101Cdn2, but had the wheel pattern of the Mutt.

maple_leaf_eh · #8 27-08-12, 16:15

Thanks for the clarification Rob. My evidently unsophisticated operating premise has been:

the M100 is a Canadian 1/4 ton trailer from the 1950s, recognizable by its rounded fenders and contemporary to the M38, M38A1 and M151;
the M101 is another Canadian made 3/4 ton (or similar capacity) trailer from the 1980s and onward, recognizable by its high "truck" stance and heavily reinforced box; and
the M416 is a 1/4 ton trailer for the Iltis, surplussed in the last few years and distinctive by its angular fenders and warning triangles on the rear panel.

This discussion is ruining my reputation for never making mistakes. I now have to suffer the indignity of admitting to a second mistake in my life. (Oh, the shame of it all .... )

servicepub (RIP) · #9 27-08-12, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

This discussion is ruining my reputation for never making mistakes. I now have to suffer the indignity of admitting to a second mistake in my life. (Oh, the shame of it all .... )

I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.

servicepub (RIP) · #10 27-08-12, 18:46

Done, and done.

rob love · #11 27-08-12, 19:26

Correct paint for a Cdn2 is green only. Camo paint was no longer applicable to the B vehicles from the time of the manufacture of these trailers. Funny how they made the tarps in cammo though.

There are a few corrections to Terry's trailer observations:

Quote:

1: the M100 is a Canadian 1/4 ton trailer from the 1950s, recognizable by its rounded fenders and contemporary to the M38, M38A1 and M151;
2: the M101 is another Canadian made 3/4 ton (or similar capacity) trailer from the 1980s and onward, recognizable by its high "truck" stance and heavily reinforced box; and
3: the M416 is a 1/4 ton trailer for the Iltis, surplussed in the last few years and distinctive by its angular fenders and warning triangles on the rear panel.

1: The M100 was made by the US and Canada, and possibly other countries. Towards the end when we ordered fenders for them we were getting the anguilar M416 fenders, so a M100 could well have those.

2: The M101 came out in the 50s, and could be ID'd by the early M38A1 style brake handles. The M101a1 came out in the late 60s, early 70s, and had the M151A2 style brake handles. Then there was the MANAC, which came out as a companion for the 5/4 ton with the commercial rims and tires and surge brakes.

3: The M416 was never bought by Canada. It was strictly American and matched the M151 family.

4: The M101Cdn2 was the Iltis trailer which replaced the M100 family. Some well meaning desk in Ottawa gave it that nomenclature which was technically incorrect. As well, M-series numbers are not usually applied to non-US designed equipment. I mentioned to the trailer LCMM back when the Iltis trailer came in that it could lead to confusion when ordering parts, but his reply was that the 3/4 ton trailers were soon leaving service. And they did, a short decade later.

servicepub (RIP) · #12 27-08-12, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

Clive,
I neglected to compliment you on the M101 CDN2 paint job.
Cheers!
Stuart

Compliments to Don Dingwall who did the work.

C

servicepub (RIP) · #13 27-08-12, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

Correct paint for a Cdn2 is green only. Camo paint was no longer applicable to the B vehicles from the time of the manufacture of these trailers. Funny how they made the tarps in cammo though.

According to Don Dingwall, there is a photo at DEW Engineering, where they made these, showing a line-up of the trailers, all in cam. Correct or not, I will keep it. The interior is just green (although the sun spot makes it lok like a sand-coloured cam was applied)

Cheers,
C

rob love · #14 27-08-12, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub

According to Don Dingwall, there is a photo at DEW Engineering, where they made these, showing a line-up of the trailers, all in cam. Correct or not, I will keep it. The interior is just green (although the sun spot makes it lok like a sand-coloured cam was applied)

Cheers,
C

That would be a new one on me, unless perhaps the paint scheme was changed part way through the production. I have only seen locally applied patterns in western Canada, and usually lacking the olive drab as that color was phased out in the 90s. Any chance you could get that photo from DEW posted?

I know there were some recalls early on for these trailers. The wheel bearings were one of them. These little trailers were neglected in regards to their servicing, especially since there was no recording of their maintenance by CFR, but rather it was by a group EMC for 1/4 ton trailers. As such, it was hard to know when they were repacked last. I got caught by that fact this summer when preparing to go to Huntsville for the convention, and a last minute check revealed a disintegrating bearing. We ended up leaving half a day late so I could get to town and buy bearings and seals.

Tip to trailer owners: you cannot judge the condition of the inner bearing by the outer bearing.

servicepub (RIP) · #15 28-08-12, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

Well, if Don wants some more practice, I have two M101 CDN2 that need painting........... I want to first replace the leaf springs, add new shocks and touch up some bumps and such.......... I have some replacement rear reflectors from the UK...........

The green looks great......... was that applied by spray gun?

Cheers!
Stuart

I have passed the message to Don.
Do you have any spare reflectors, including the side ones?
Both the green and the black were sprayed. In fact, Don turned the trailer upside down, fixed the springs, wire-brushed the rust away and painted the underside. Then he flipped it upright, removed the rust and painted.

rob love · #16 28-08-12, 03:59

Rust on a M101Cdn2? They were zeibarted and undercoated. How could they rust?

The problem I have with mine here is that the zeibart from the upper square tubing keeps leaking and covering the corners of my trailer.

Aside from the cheap nylon bushings, what goes wrong with the springs? Finally, after 50 years of using truck springs on trailers, they got it right by using trailer springs. And 3000 pound capacity at that.

servicepub (RIP) · #17 28-08-12, 04:28

The springs were fine. It was the shackle binding them together that was falling apart.

Robin Craig · #18 28-08-12, 05:51

Rob,

we have the same problem with one of those, I was thinking of cleaning the opeing with acetone and installing a nylon plug secured with "right stuff" and then cleaning the trailer with gentle soapy warm water pressure cleaner.

Think it has merit?

R

rob love · #19 28-08-12, 06:56

I'm not sure it would cure the problem. The Zeibart is designed to creep. They must have really filled those tubes for it to still be spewing like this after 20 years. I am not sure if the square channelling is welded all the way around at the corners, and if it is, whether the weld is leak proof. The square channel may have been welded in place and the inside edges are not closed off, which means the stuff will continue to leak.

All in all though they are the toughest of all the 1/4 ton trailers. I have both a M100 and a M101Cdn2, and while the temptation is there to thin the herd of one or the other, each has it's merits.

Ed Storey · #20 28-08-12, 20:14

Judging by the photographs that I have of this trailer type, the M101CDN2 was originally delivered in the NATO three-colour camouflage as seen in this image taken at CFB Kingston in 1994.

I am not sure when they were repainted to only Canadian green, but I also have images of these trailers in use in Bosnia in 2001 still sporting the NATO camouflage.

I have imagery from 2002 that shows these trailers now painted green only.

I cannot say if they were ever painted white for a UN mission and would be interested to see an image of one so painted. I believe though that, the M101CDN2 Iltis trailers were not painted in the Canadian three-colour camouflage although once again if someone can come up with an image that shows one in CF use so painted, I would be pleased to see it.

servicepub (RIP) · #21 28-08-12, 21:53

I bemoan the lack of photos of the CFR plate!

rob love · #22 28-08-12, 22:20

As I recall, the black "stitching" was an early recall to prevent premature rusting, from the water collecting under the re-enforcing panels. It well could have been in the instructions then to touch up the pain, which by that time would have been the single colour. The 28 that I bought were hardly used and none of them showed any signs of cam. They were in the serial ranges of between 250 or so up to about 750. I'll recheck mine for any signs of cam underneath the green, but I don't believe there was any color but green on them.

The LSVW came out at the same time as these trailers, and were in green only. The HLVW was built around 89/90 if I recall, and they were camo'd. Could be that the 101Cdn2 fell right on the border of the implementation, and the paint scheme was changed during production.

rob love · #23 30-08-12, 03:32

Yes, but my thought is that it may have been the paint scheme at the beginning of production, and dropped during production. I still have not gone to mine to see if there is any other colours under the green.

Thanks for the pics...unusual to see them cammed in this end of the country.

Scott Bentley · #24 30-08-12, 04:28

Not sure if the point came up here at all, but what I find more entertaining than wether the trailer was mono 383 Green or Nato Temperate 3 Colour Cam (I've also seen both), was that it was never painted to match the Vehicle that it was designed to be towed by....

rob love · #25 30-08-12, 06:07

By the late late 80s we were going to the NATO cam as opposed to the Cdn 3 colour cam. The M101Cdn2 was produced at the tail end of the NATO cam era while the Iltis was in the tail end of the 3 colour Cdn era. By the mid 90s, both would have been correct in the solid green. Not sure I ever saw an Iltis in solid green though.

rob love · #26 30-08-12, 14:01

The chrome rims and oversize tires are cool too. That one owuld have had a hub change I would assume.

I modified one over to a tailgate and painted it red for a customer. It was, when cutting out the tailgate, that I realized just how heavy these things were built. It took a lot longer than I thought it would to cut through the metal.

Ed Storey · #27 30-08-12, 14:23

Here is a photograph from 1996 of a green Iltis Light Cable Layer. I have another image of this vehicle taken a few years earlier when it was still in its factory applied camouflage.

Scott Bentley · #28 30-08-12, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Here is a photograph from 1996 of a green Iltis Light Cable Layer. I have another image of this vehicle taken a few years earlier when it was still in its factory applied camouflage.

No doubt, there were more than a few Iltis out there that were mono 383 Green, but you have confirmed my memory Ed that most were either SEV's (TOW Iltis comes to mind) or had returned from a Roto Overseas, rather than a fleet wide mid-life painting scheme. My comment above was based on seat of the pants feel rather than historic fact

Scotty

rob love · #29 30-08-12, 15:31

The Iltis all went through re-life in the early 90s,and most got fresh paint at that point in the cam pattern. By the end of that decade, the only paint available was the CARC, which could only be applied at second line. As a result, paint jobs were no longer being done (theoretically) by first line units. Very few vehicles made it to second line for cosmetic paintjobs (exceptions were for vehicles like the c/s 9), which is why it would usually be limited to vehicles coming back from overseas or on VMOs. It is also the reason why many of the cammed vehicles were touched up with any green that could be found in a spray bomb, or have the black extended to cover areas that needed touch up.

Scott Bentley · #30 30-08-12, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love

It is also the reason why many of the cammed vehicles were touched up with any green that could be found in a spray bomb, or have the black extended to cover areas that needed touch up.

This comment made me smile..... As a Young Sapper, I spray bombed my fair share of CF Vehicles in prep for the ATI. What was that line from the commercial: "Spray it with Tremclad.... Right over the rust...."

And we did... Sorry for the trolling again Iltis Guys