What regiment is this?

[Jordan Baker]

Hi everyone.

I found this photo in the book Tip of the Spear on page 192. It shows a line of Bren Gun Carriers with 50cals. mounted in the front. What Im currious to know is what regiement are they. They are definately Canadian as they show a Canadian div patch and have Canadain serial numbers. I have also narrowed it down to the RHLI from 2nd div. and the Regina Rifles of the 3rd div. If anyone has any further insight into what regiement they were from I would be greatful.

Also of intrest is the wasp flame thrower beside them.

Thanks
Jordan Baker

[Michael Reintjes]

Kinda hard to tell if the div patch is Dark Blue(2nd) or Gray (3rd).More research into Regimental histories could reveal who had a carrier platoon with 50's on them.I,ll check the RHLI history but I don't have the Regina's history. Maybe someone else does.Cheers,Mike.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Michael, I checked both the Regina and RHLI histories, but could not find any reference regarding the mounting of .50 on their carriers.

I've seen this picture before and read about it, but can't remember when, where & who?...........still looking.

Cheers

[Michael Reintjes]

Yes..This shot looks familiar to me as well...The Riley Carriers in the history show no .50,s and there are no reference to them as you,ve said...The tac signs are very visible in the photos in the history but the div signs are in visible.Maybe thats just photo quality but the div sign in the above photo looks light enough to me to be grey.Its just speculation,but If I had to wager I,d say the .50 cal carriers were 3rd Div. Cheers,Mike.

[Mark W. Tonner]

I agree with Michael, although there is no mention in either history of these carriers with mounted .50's, I'd say they were from the 3rd Cdn Inf Div (Regina's) also, judging by the lightness of the formation sign background.

Still haven't found the reference I have regarding this picture, but still looking.

Cheers

[Michael Reintjes]

Hey Stew!...I hope you,ve seen above posted photo......Just think how yours would look with that fine piece of .50 cal kit boucing around on top?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This shot looks familiar to me as well...

See http://www.universalcarrier.org/t16pic06.html for another picture of a Universal Carrier armed with a .50 cal Browning. In this case, a T16 of the Canadian Lake Superior Regiment.

Regards,
Hanno

*~*~*~*~*
T16 Universal Carrier
http://www.geocities.com/t16carrier/
*~*~*~*~*

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hanno; notice the other carrier in the picture (CT 95783) has a .30 mounted on it. than again, so does the carrier in question (CT 96270), look between the .50's mount and the gunner's elbow, you can just make out the barrel of the .30 (rear soldier is manning this one).

Cheers

[Stewart Loy]

Originally posted by Michael Reintjes
Hey Stew!...I hope you,ve seen above posted photo......Just think how yours would look with that fine piece of .50 cal kit boucing around on top?

Mike,

'Tho the .50 looks menacing, a Vickers is the right tool for the job! I am negotiating for one as we speak ( OK, write ) and have some ideas on the mounting already.

Now THAT should keep the guy next door wondering ...


Stewart

[Stewart Loy]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Hanno; notice the other carrier in the picture (CT 95783) has a .30 mounted on it. than again, so does the carrier in question (CT 96270), look between the .50's mount and the gunner's elbow, you can just make out the barrel of the .30 (rear soldier is manning this one).

Cheers

Mark and Hanno,

Please review the numbers that are painted on those Carriers. Why does it look like the numbers were masked off, and the vehicle repainted? I have seen this quite often - were that many units repainted, or were the numbers coated in a laquer to keep them legible?

I am just about to try my hand at signpainting on my Carrier, and don't want to have to do it twice.

Regards,


Stewart

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Stewart Loy "Why does it look like the numbers were masked off, and the vehicle repainted?"

Stewart, the vehicles probably were repainted shortly after the end of hostilities in Europe for the various Victory parades and what have you that Cdn Units took part in and also vehicles were spruced-up, so to say, for possible sale, ie: The Netherlands were sold amounts of Cdn vehs and eqpt after the war.

Cheers

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Stewart, the vehicles probably were repainted shortly after the end of hostilities in Europe ...

Actually, most vehicles were periodically repainted throughout the campaign anyway, especially if they'd gone back for depot-level work. Any time some bumf came down from on-high regarding colours or schemes, the work would be done when time and circumstance permitted. Messers Guthrie and Dingwall might be able to add more to this when their time permits.

[Jordan Baker]

I just wanted to say thanks for your help in comming to the conclution that it was a Third Div carrier.

Thanks again
Jordan Baker

[Jon Skagfeld]

This same photo is reproduced on page 47 of "In Search of Pegasus" (Service Publications).

It is attributed to John Feduck, 1 Can Para Bn Assoc.

Seems odd that this photo would appear in two recent Canadian Airborne publications, although the text in the above reference says..."used to support the infantry during the breakout of the Normandy salient".

[servicepub (RIP)]

Just wanted to jump in and correct JKon's statement. "In Search of Pegasus" was not published by my firm Service Publications but by Vanwell Publishing. I do sell these books through my web-site.
If the captin includes the Archives number I can dig out the original caption provided by the photographer. Let me know as I get down to Archives every couple of weeks.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Hey, Clive: first of all, who is JKon?...anyway the reference to SP was purely salutory, notwithstanding the fact that Vanwell is, of course, the publisher. My intention ws that one who wished to get this book could do so, through you.

I'm a bit puzzled about your second para...how does one determine the caption and archive number so that you could research it?

Should you be able to do such research, would that effectivly determine that the carriers were from 3 Div, RHLI? If so, then the question begs an answer, viz: why were these two shots contained in books about 1 Can Para Bn?...or am I reading too much into the situation?

[servicepub (RIP)]

Hi JKon

JClive here!! (finger fumbles again - what can I say?)
I should have read your post fully before replying. It is attributed to a member of the 1 Cdn Para Bn Assoc so therefore probably does not come from the National Archives collection of 20,000+ photos from the Cdn Army Film & Photo Unit, accession 1967-052
With these latter photos you can research the original photo number (not the Archives "PA" number) to the captins written by the photographer. Sometimes these were very cryptic, i.e. "CWACs at reception" but sometimes they can be very descriptive and include names, date, location etc....
I will ask one of the co-authors, Michel Wyzinski (sp?) if he has more information on the Unit.

[charlie fitton]

Major Del Struck (MC) started the war as a Sgt in the HLIofC. He went CANLOAN and ended up in 10th Bn HLI with a carrier pl.

He advised me that all of his carriers had 2 30.s each, supposedly scrounged from abandoned US tanks. (most likely veh delivered as replacements and not picked up yet, or from a veh cas collection point)

Regardless, it crossed my mind that ammo supply would be a problem as >30 belted would not normally be in the Brit supply line for an infantry unit.

"Easy" he said "the Yanks had ammo - we had rum."

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

I just came across this old thread

Stuart,

Sorry, my T16 website is no longer online. Will see if I have the info and pictures stored somewhere.

Great to hear the stories from your dad

Hanno

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by charlie fitton

>>>

"Easy" he said "the Yanks had ammo - we had rum."

I can attest to a similar trade between Canadian EOD and US EOD in Kuwait City, March 1991. The Canadian War Museum wanted a long list of AKs and other Iraqi small arms, and we had access to the Royal Navy minesweeper mothership which had beer and rum. The Americans had AKs and were extremely thirsty after months in the Saudi and Kuwaiti desert. A three way trade was arranged. I think we got 24 unique and different AKs for 24 flats of beer.

[jeff davis]

Somewhere I posted that the Westminster Regiment(motor) 5th Canadian Armoured Division in Italy had 50s on there Carriers.
The .50 were from The Lord Stathconas that tossed them aside in favour of .30 s
The .50 were not Abile to point down the side of their Tanks to shoot the Gemans off.
This story came from A Sgt I new from the wartime Westies that I cannot remember his name ! Dam Memory . I asked him were he got the ammo and He said they had gotten enough from the strathconas. I ask how they got the .50s and He said He went over and asked.

[jeff davis]

Sgt Fred West was his name amazing what a good sleep will do.