Mk2 carrier tow hitch on a Mk1

[rob love]

So I managed to pick up a hitch assembly for my mk1 carrier. It is the Mk2 type, although it came off a mk1 carrier. I am happy with the way the pieces sandblasted and look after their coats of POR-15 and olive. But as I measure it all up, I am starting to see a forthcoming problem. Can anyone who has done this confirm if the plate on the back of the POW holder on the battery box has to go? I suspect the hitch will interfere or come close to interfering with it. What about the POW bracket itself? Does it clear the hitch?
Seems to me I recall that the left arm will require the shovel bracket to be bent or modified.

[Colin Alford]

Rob,

There are definitely clearance problems when fitting the Stacey tow hitch on a Mk1*.

I did not do the fitting myself, and I suspect that it may have been done while the vehicle was still in service.

The registration plate on the back of the POW holder was removed.

The majority of the angle iron cross-bar of the hitch assembly just clears the back of the POW holder, but the enlarged right end where the tail-light and white/red switch are housed requires a notch to be cut in the POW holder.

The pick handle socket needs to be removed as it interferes with the left arm. I will need to inspect if there was any trimming done on the shovel bracket to clear the left arm.

The rear fenders will need to be modified.

I should be able to take some images tomorrow evening.

Colin

[rob love]

Thanks Colin, I expected there would be a few issues. I'm hoping to eat my cake and have it too. That is, I want the hitch, but not have to lose too much of the original mk1 standard fitments.

I expected the rear fenders would have to either have the holes elongated on the top, or the bends on the inside edges moved in a bit. I might just make new fenders to suit the application. I bent one last year when backing out of the storage area when it rubbed against the artillery tractor tire, so it requires attention anyway.

If the light and switch are a clearance issue on the hitch angle iron, I may just leave them off and stick with the one on the registraion plate. I might cut the bottom couple inches off the registration plate to make everythign fit and adjust the brackets for said plate accordingly.

I recall seeing the mk1 shovel bracket (with the included pick axe bracket) being bent or cut....just don't remember by how much was neccessary.

Looking forward to the photos.

Rob

[Petr Brezina]

I believe that during upgrade from Mk.I to Mk.II specification which included also STA installation was rear battery box dismounted and standard MK.II large stowage box was installed on the rear plate instead.

[rob love]

I am at the workshop now where I have a carrier from 2PPCLI sitting a few feet from my desk. I held the left towing bracket nearby to the carrier, and noticed the pick handle bracket appears to have been notched to allow the installation of the towing bracket. Perhaps that is the route to go.
I won't be getting my carrier out until the weather warms up at least 30 or 40 degrees. It's -15C outside right now, which is the heat of the day, so perhaps in April.

[Colin Alford]

Rob,

Attached is a very old image of a pick/shovel/pry bar bracket on a mortar carrier that appears to be notched in the same manner as the one on the 2PPCLI carrier.

The outdoor image of the hitch on a Mk1* is another old image, but it gives a general view in decent light

There are also a couple of images taken today of a notch job that appears more crude than the other examples.

[Colin Alford]

Here are some images of the notching on the POW can holder. It was done rather crudely but the cans still fit.

[Colin Alford]

Here are some images of the conduit and underside of the switch/light bracket plus a couple of wider angle images. The carrier is currently shoe-horned into its storage location which does allow any long distance images.

That’s all for now,

Colin

[rob love]

Thanks Colin.
My research today showed 3 different of the shovel/pick handle brackets for the carriers. They are:
TL12151 "When stock exhausted use CTL12151"
CTL12151A "Used with "bolted to hull type" towing hook
CTL12151B Used with "spring type" tow hook

I had a look at the 2VP carrier bracket today and found a 1944 date on it. The part number is likely underneath the plate. Since this carrier was made up of mk1 and mk2 parts, my bet is that this carrier has the mk2 CTL12151B bracket, which will allow the hitch bracket to work with it.

My angle iron piece on the top of the brackets also has some modification to work with the mk1 carrier. They notched the lamp bracket so they did not have to cut into the POW bracket, and made a new plate above the angle for a steel CMP type lamp instead of the rubber one originally on the lamp bracket. My theory is the lamp in it's original spot would also have interfered with the POW bracket.

[rob love]

Looking at your last batch of photos Colin, that angle brace is very tight and higher than I had hoped. It is not looking good for the existing registration plate as there would not be much left of it if I were to cut it. We'll see what I come up with.

[Colin Alford]

Rob,

I was going to have a look at the parts list to see if there were different variations of the shovel/ pick handle bracket, but you have beat me to it. (After a recent update of my iPad, it took an incredibly frustrating amount of clicks to re-size and upload the pictures above. I had to walk away to calm down for a few minutes).

The modifications done to your cross bar to clear the POW can holder appear to be a better solution than my example. Yes, on the un-modified cross bar the lamp interferes with the right edge of the can holder.

Years ago I found some “walk around” images of another Mk1* with the hitch fitted. My recollection is that the carrier was in Ontario and it had a WD number which was only a couple of digits different. I recall that it had a virtually identical crude cut/weld job on the POW can holder. I suspect that both might have had hitches fitted in the same shop.

Do you know any history of the carrier that donated your hitch? My initial impression is that these might have been in-service mods, as I doubt any farmers would have gone through the trouble of preserving the functionality of the POW can holder, and ensuring that they had functioning tail/ convoy lights.

Colin

[rob love]

Looking at that POW carrier modification in your photo brings a tear to my eye. You would think, after they figured out what had to be cut on the first one, the could just cut out the required portion and not have to take out the whole corner, and crudely replace the upper portion.

The carrier that donated my hitch belongs to a family in Southern On. It does not appear to have any civilian modifictions done to it, and is rough/unrestored but fairly complete. The owner(s) do not want to sell, so I consider myself fortunate to have been able to purchase this piece.

Another option I am considering is to leave the angle iron piece off altogether, or else notch it where it meets the number plate. I won't notch the original of course, but make up a repro. I'll see which way the wind is blowing come springtime. If I can keep the original mk1 tailight with the red/white switch, that is my preference.

[Colin Alford]

Rob,

I agree that it is an ugly job. I am happy that no-one I know did the work, but it is an interesting part of the vehicle’s history.

I would think that you would want some sort of cross bar to mechanically tie the two sides together. I do have a somewhat rusty and bent registration plate hiding somewhere. If I can remember where it is hiding, I can take some pictures of it roughly in location to assist in developing a solution.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by rob love

I am at the workshop now where I have a carrier from 2PPCLI sitting a few feet from my desk. I held the left towing bracket nearby to the carrier, and noticed the pick handle bracket appears to have been notched to allow the installation of the towing bracket. Perhaps that is the route to go.....

Sigh. You have the life!

[Dave Schindel]

Rob, is this fender gap for installation of the towing attachment? It's on my MKII and I do not have the hitch for it. I would like to get the proper fenders if possible but am unsure of what I have here.
Any thoughts or suggestions/
Dave

[Ron Pier]

That's how mine are on my MK2. Without the Stacey attachments, I guess you would need some packing pieces (hardwood?) or re-weld the flanges in a different position. Ron

[Dave Schindel]

Ron, yes, I was thinking of making wood packing or spacers. I wonder if the factory used different fenders for carriers w/o hitches?

[Ron Pier]

Dave I just looked in the parts book. The numbers for those rear guards are
CTL 14326B for the RH side and CTL 14327B for the LH side. These are for vehicles fitted with the sprung hook.

Without the hook the "B" is substituted for an "A". so the guards are different. Simple enough for a welder to modify yours though. Ron

[Dave Schindel]

Thanks Ron. What I am going to do is get the fender holes lined up a bit better and install a couple wood spacers to take up the gap.