.30 and .50 calibre ammo cans (Canadian)

Michael Dorosh · #1 18-03-03, 07:16

Just curious how the Canadians distributed .30 and .50 calibre ammunition in armoured units in WW II.

Was the ammo delivered in American metal cans?

Did the Canadians manufacture their own?

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #2 20-03-03, 01:49

Mike, see the following link referred to me by Stu Loy:

http://www.dana-nield.com/aa/referen...I/canadian.asp

If ever you find white 30 and 50 cal. tins (Fox type) I'd sure like to know, if even for a pattern.

Wpns 421 · #3 25-11-09, 00:44

When I worked at 25 CFSD in Mtl as a technical inspection I came across some triwalls that were marked ammo boxes. Inside the triwall boxes were ammuntion boxes 30 cal linked. The boxes were dated into the 1940's, we had over 100,000. We sent them for disposal, I don;t know if these were the boxes during WWII but they seemed like it. FYI or more UFI

The boxes were made of wood

edstorey · #4 25-11-09, 06:37

Mike:

The study of how ordnance was manufactured and distributed is something that has not recieved a lot of research. Canada, the United States and the United Kingdom produced a vast array of ordnance for all three services and each service had its own specific way of packaging and supplying the ammunition to the user. As far as packaging is concerned it appears from my study that both the U.S. and the U.K. each had their own methods of packaging and as far as the Canada is concerned, during WWII it tended towards the British system. As for .30 and .50 cal ammunition for the Canadian Army in NW Europe, documentation and photographs show that the ammunition was supplied in U.S. manufactured metal boxes. I believe the boxes were delivered in wire re-enforced plywood crates that look similar to the ones used today for SA ammunition.

Here is an M1 .30 cal Box.

The M2 .50 cal Box.

derk derin · #5 25-11-09, 07:22

Ed,
I have in my collection of .50 cal stuff a wooden ammo box made like the wooden .303 vickers boxes but this one is wider and will fit a full belt of .50 cal in it.The wooden top is missing but the bottom is stamped;
H51 CMK
DLDC-45
The box construction is thin plywood (3 ply) with metal edging and wire handles and wire hooks that fold in to hold the wooden top. I don't know what country made the box but the vickers boxes are the same construction.
Derk.

edstorey · #6 25-11-09, 11:41

Your H51 is a Commonwealth box, most likely British or Canadian, that was manufactured in 1945. Generally these wooden boxes could be used to carry different types of SAA either boxed, bandoliers or belted and were used just like the Canadian military now use the M2A1 boxes for different types of SAA. The H51s were shipped two inside a metal H50 box which was also stenciled with the appropriate contents. Depending on the contents, there could also be a metal insert for the H51.

I believe (am pretty sure) that you will not see .30 nor .50 US ammunition delivered in these boxes; although in the field someone may transfer a belt over to this type of box (for whatever reason) and of course this could turn up in a photo.

marco · #7 25-11-09, 12:48

There are .30 Cal ammunitionboxes exactly like the one shown on the photo with the difference that they have "No 33" stamped instead of "M1".

I have several of these and have been told that these No33 boxes were manufactured in Canada.

Marco

Alex Blair (RIP) · #8 25-11-09, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Mike, see the following link referred to me by Stu Loy:

http://www.dana-nield.com/aa/referen...I/canadian.asp

If ever you find white 30 and 50 cal. tins (Fox type) I'd sure like to know, if even for a pattern.

Hi Bruce..
I thought this would give you a little inspiration of achievement for the next gather up with your Fox..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58rdYkc5y7I

Lots of fun..!!

Clive_Dakers · #9 25-11-09, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by derk derin

Ed,
I have in my collection of .50 cal stuff a wooden ammo box made like the wooden .303 vickers boxes but this one is wider and will fit a full belt of .50 cal in it.The wooden top is missing but the bottom is stamped;
H51 CMK
DLDC-45
The box construction is thin plywood (3 ply) with metal edging and wire handles and wire hooks that fold in to hold the wooden top. I don't know what country made the box but the vickers boxes are the same construction.
Derk.

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/h-51-t27507.html

Follow the link for pictures of the H.51 2 x H.51 were contained in an H.50 and contained an H.52 tin box

It was developed for use as "Jungle Pack". The are a few other boxes that have the same type of construction, G.114 for example which I believe held grenades.

derk derin · #10 26-11-09, 07:19

Thanks Ed for clearing that up for me.Like I said,I have been collecting this stuff for 25 years but will now start to learn what is proper and how this stuff was issued and used.The ordnance site looks interesting but will stick to using MLU forum for now so I spend some time restoring my CMP this winter and not sitting behind the computer! Rob Love warned me once I get a computer,I won't get as much work done on my vehicles and I see he was right! Although it's nice to learn and gather information from others!
Derk.

edstorey · #11 26-11-09, 11:16

Marco:

Can you attach some images of a No. 33 Box? Thanks.

marco · #12 27-11-09, 12:48

Hello Ed,

Hereby a photo from the No33 ammobox.

Sorry for the delay, I had to sent this from work because I can't connect to the MLU site at home since I have a new computer..

Marco

edstorey · #13 28-11-09, 16:14

That is an interesting photograph, I will have to see what I can find out about the No. 33 Box.

Dirk Leegwater (RIP) · #14 29-11-09, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Dorosh

Did the Canadians manufacture their own?

Yes I think so, see the pictures of an orginal 30 cal. ammo box for our "Canadian" FOX.

Mvg. Dirk

edstorey · #15 29-11-09, 17:29

Any idea what this box is for?

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #16 29-11-09, 18:45

Dirk, I think your 30 cal. box is unique to Canadian Fox. It seems to be patterned after the British Besa Box.

Can you see any trace of black lettering on your box? The Fox 50 cal. box was stenciled "50 CAL." on the front and it follows that the 30 cal. box would have similar markings. Is there any sign of lettering on the front or the top? Maybe both?

Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Leegwater

Yes I think so, see the pictures of an orginal 30 cal. ammo
box for our "Canadian" FOX.

Mvg. Dirk

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #17 29-11-09, 18:47

...and I'd give it a good home if it was surplus to you needs.

Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstorey

Any idea what this box is for?

edstorey · #18 29-11-09, 19:42

A vehicle mounted Vickers?

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #19 29-11-09, 21:26

Could be either. Often the linked belts came in wooden boxes similar to the regular .303 rifle ammunition.

Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstorey

A vehicle mounted Vickers?

edstorey · #20 29-11-09, 21:54

The H51 Box is generally considered to be the common box in which belted ammunition would have been supplied to a ground mounted Vickers MG. Being manufactured of thin plywood, the H51 is much like the US M2 metal ammunition box in that although the intent was to recover and refill the boxes, many were not. The construction of this No. 8 Mk I box tends to lead me to believe that it was designed for an AFV and that it was intended to be refilled and reused as part of the vehcle's equipment.

edstorey · #21 30-11-09, 01:30

This is what an H51C box looks like. As can be seen the construction is pretty basic when compared to the No. 8 Mk I.

derk derin · #22 04-01-10, 19:30

I have an ammo box with a clip welded to the box.Any ideas what it was used for?

I also have a Vickers box that I was told went in an armoured vehicle.Was there a particular vehicle this box was used in or was it for any application with the vickers?

"http://www.alfrules.com/derk/IMG_7261.jpg 018.jpg"