Chevy 15cwt id please....

dodgenut · #1 23-08-06, 09:24

A pal of mine is shortly going to rescue an old Chevy, here in the UK, its been off the road since the 1950s and used by a garage post ww2. As far as I know it is complete, plenty of surface dust, crust and grime, but definitely worth saving.

Doing a search on MLU brought up a thread with this picture in:

The truck that he's buying looks remarkably similar to those lined up in the pic above, at least to my eyes ... apologies for the picture quality, we'll take some more when it is collected ... the bit with the AA/RAC sign on looks like an addition, but otherwise the bodies look fairly similar ..

I'm the first to admit that I know very little about these. We're told its a 15cwt 4x4, but don't know much else. Gordon told me that its one of the alligator-bonnet jobs, and from looking around my guess is that it is a cab 12?

Any info that could be shed on this vehicle (CMP?), and comment on whether the body is correct, would be appreciated. Does anyone know what this machine weighs? or what it would have been used for originally? my oppo could do with the weight info in order to get someone with a suitable beefy transporter to bring it back. Would there be a market for something like this in the UK? I'll pass on any info that you can provide!

thanks!!
Rick.

Grant Bowker · #2 23-08-06, 14:05

I don't know about saleability in the UK, but if I found a cab 12 in that condition here (Ottawa, Canada) I would be the envy of many.

First the easy part, the 15 cwt cab 13 GS listed as about 7400 lb empty. I am guessing, but don't think that the cab 12 was that different for weight.

About the body, I would expect to see a 2B1 body on a cab 12. The 2B1 is an all steel body with folding sides and open, square wheel arches. This is what I think I see in your first photo of many trucks. I don't know when the transition to 2C1 all steel fixed side, with closed, square arches took place to comment on whether it would be appropriate on a cab 12.

I think the 2A1 might also be possible on cab 12 since the transition 2A1 to 2B1 seems to have happened at about the same time as cab 11 to cab 12. Others may have photos to prove the existence of this combination or documents to say it never happened. 2A1 was wood and steel composite with round, open arches.

The body on your truck looks most like a 2H1, wood and steel composite construction with closed square arches.

In any case it looks like you have found a marvelous starting point.

Hanno Spoelstra · #3 23-08-06, 14:33

Rick, first of all, I agree with Grant - this is a great find!

Quote:

Originally posted by Grant Bowker
About the body, I would expect to see a 2B1 body on a cab 12. The 2B1 is an all steel body with folding sides and open, square wheel arches. This is what I think I see in your first photo of many trucks. I don't know when the transition to 2C1 all steel fixed side, with closed, square arches took place to comment on whether it would be appropriate on a cab 12.

I think the 2A1 might also be possible on cab 12 since the transition 2A1 to 2B1 seems to have happened at about the same time as cab 11 to cab 12. Others may have photos to prove the existence of this combination or documents to say it never happened. 2A1 was wood and steel composite with round, open arches.

The body on your truck looks most like a 2H1, wood and steel composite construction with closed square arches.

Secondly, for reference I attached a picture showing the 2B1 and 2H1 bodies cropped from a picture found on Colin Stevens' CMP site.

dodgenut · #4 23-08-06, 15:08

Hi Gents

Its a friend of mine thats retrieving this one (I've got more than enough already

) . Any thoughts as to what it may have been used for, and where this kind of vehicle would have operated? things might be clearer once its back at my friend's place and we've looked for any numbers on it. Apparently (we've not checked) according to the seller its still on its original tyres, which I suppose is possible if it came off the road early in the 50s. My old Dodge still has US made boots on it too.

cheers
Rick.

Phil Waterman · #5 23-08-06, 18:24

Again I’m amazed at what is tucked away out there. Your friend’s find looks to be amazingly complete and in good conditions. Has it been stored undercover for all these years? Tell him welcome to the wonderful world of CMP collecting. Look forward to more pictures and information about this find. In return the readers of the MLU will I’m sure try to answer questions as the they come up.

dodgenut · #6 23-08-06, 19:01

Yup as far as I know it's been tucked away in a dry shed for +/- 50 years. There is some localised rot but nothing major by any means. What would be the Chevy model number for this old truck be? ie if I go searching online for related stuff, what should I be looking for ???

thanks

Rick.

Keith Webb · #7 23-08-06, 21:32

Quote:

Originally posted by dodgenut
Yup as far as I know it's been tucked away in a dry shed for +/- 50 years. There is some localised rot but nothing major by any means. What would be the Chevy model number for this old truck be? ie if I go searching online for related stuff, what should I be looking for ???

Rick, it's a 1941 C15A cab 12, model 8444.

What a wonderful find, too. There are obviously a lot of Canadians (and others) drooling over those pictures.

dodgenut · #8 23-08-06, 22:54

Much appreciate all the info gentlemen, I'll print this off and drop it off tomorrow with the to-be-owner

Are there many of these still around? ie compared to the later (cab 13??) CMPs?

Rick.

Grant Bowker · #9 27-08-06, 21:13

The attached photo was found in the "Radar Trailers" thread, it shows a cab 13 with what appears to be a 2B1 body in what appears to be a factory setting, possibly during manufacture. This makes me think that a 2C1 might be inappropriate on a cab 12. Again, others may be able to prove it one way or the other.

I am sure I have seen a production breakdown by year and capacity of truck. I think that I have seen something on how many cab 11, cab 12 and cab 13 were produced, but have no idea where I found it.

It would seem to make sense that proportionately fewer cab 11 and cab 12 remain since they were exposed to the hazards of war for longer.

I hope the new owner will show us photos evey so often.

Linked from "Interesting pic of CMP"

David_Hayward (RIP) · #10 27-08-06, 23:18

Is there a data plate on the truck DN? I am wondering whether I might be able to find any details of it from my registration listings: is the rego number original and still there? I have to say that inmy experience the C15As were demobbed and auctioned/acquired by various outfits including GM Ltd in Southampton by 1948, say 1949 latest. These were either rebuilt/refurbished or literally sold as seen and the last would have been registered around 1951 say. The Southampton operation had pretty well dried up by 1951. So in the absence of any rego number, and I can tell you roughly which month/year from my records given the number, that would give you some idea of when in the 1950s it was in service.

Wish I knew more about its history...given a rego we might be able to look it up in old County archives if I have not got the details.

dodgenut · #11 27-08-06, 23:54

Evening all

Hopefully it'll have some dataplates on it, we'll have a good old crawl over it when its been dragged back to his place (he's fishing around for someone who can shift a heavy old lump like this at the mo).

As far as I know it was never civvy registered, ie it was run on tradeplates.

As soon as I have more info, I'll tack it onto this post.

cheers
Rick

Pete Ashby · #12 31-08-06, 19:57

Hello Rick

we meet here as well I see !! welcome to my other obsession,

this is a photo of my C15A 12 cab, as others have indicated you should have the 2B1 steel drop sided body, full transverse tool box without any spare wheel carrier, the 11 and 12 cabs were fitted with run flat tyres so never carried a spare.

If you go here http://www.canadianregister.co.uk/ you can see how many C15A 12 cabs are registered world wide, there are known to be a few more but these are in the main un-restored and not too many of these either.
The OCMP have two on charge, mine and a tanker of Steve Stones currently under restoration.

The role of the truck as a 15cwt 4x4 was varied and in both the Canadian and British army it was used as officer transport in the field before the jeep replaced this type of vehicle, it was used as a section truck, as a run about for front line infantry sections and armoured regiments and also as a towing tractor for the 6pdr anti tank gun before this gun became obsolete.

Many 11 and 12 cabs went direct to the middle east and either perished there or subsequently in Sicily or Italy and never returned to the UK. Those that survive today are almost certainly base vehicles that got left behind during the second front when all front line units were re-equipped with the latest 13 cab stocks.
Having said that there is photographic evidence of 12 cabs in Europe. I have a reference that’s states that the Polish and Cheque free forces were equipped with them, it is unlikely that these would have ever returned to the UK.

Amazing find good luck to your friend it is certainly worth saving.

Pete

Howard · #13 01-09-06, 09:20

G'Day Rick and Grant..
The body on the rear of the C15 looks exactly like mine. See more pix on keith's web page . Is there any chance of some detail photos of the tail gate as mine is missing. Also love to get a look at what tags etc are welded to the side as I have little more than reminants in most cases remaining.

Another question, the tool box behind the cab. Is it a one piece lid, or two as seen above (that Grant posted).
Thanks heaps Fellas,
Cheers, Howard.

Grant Bowker · #14 01-09-06, 13:53

I will try to get photos of Bob C's 2B1 tailgate for you. It is in a state that the body is mainly a pattern. To keep the 2 body types separate I will most likely post them to the thread about your truck. On the other hand if you want the tailgate for the 2H1 I can try to scan a diagram from the AEDB Design Record.

Bob Carriere · #15 02-09-06, 01:53

Howard

Will try to get you some pictures of the tail gate from my Chev cab 12........ rusted but a good model......

On the tool box..... tool box is missing on the cab 12 but on my cab 11 the tool box is a one piece lid... inside are two sheet metal pockets in opposite corners that hold the two gal POW..... will try to get a photo of the tool box has well for you.....

Grant... we got a job to do....

Bob C.

Howard · #16 02-09-06, 12:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Grant Bowker
I will try to get photos of Bob C's 2B1 tailgate for you. It is in a state that the body is mainly a pattern. To keep the 2 body types separate I will most likely post them to the thread about your truck. On the other hand if you want the tailgate for the 2H1 I can try to scan a diagram from the AEDB Design Record.

Thanks Grant, just to confirm that my body is a 2B1, and because it is doubtful that there are any more around here in Aus, I will probably need some measurements to try to remanufacture one. Looking foward to the pix. Thanks for your help Grant and Bob.
Cheers!
Howard

Grant Bowker · #17 05-09-06, 02:06

Courtesy of Bob Carriere:

Bob may have taken a better one of this, the tailgate surface is plain except for the strap hinges, tarp securing fittings and the missing latch hardware. We failed to warn Rob that we were taking photos so that he could pretty himself up, so....

Grant Bowker · #18 05-09-06, 02:36

The toolbox is made up of flat or simple bent pieces of quite heavy sheet, welded together with full length seams. The hinges (4) look to be regular door hinges, welded on. The latch fitting on the side of the box is riveted in place but the hasp on the lid is attached by a single machine screw, possibly a later replacement? As Bob commented earlier, the holders inside fit a 2 gal POW can, but might have been meant for something else as well. Bob says the box was secured to the frame by "j" bolts through the holes in the toolbox base.

Grant Bowker · #19 05-09-06, 02:39

The box is symetric about the truck's centerline and is fixed with the hinge forward.

cliff · #20 05-09-06, 08:27

neat pics. Thanks for that. What is the diagonal cutout in the corners on one side for?

Any chance of some basic measurements of the box?

cheers
Cliff

Grant Bowker · #21 05-09-06, 12:09

Bob Carriere said that the diagomal cutouts on the two sides of the transversely mounted box matched the fuel filler necks to provide access clearance for the fillers. Dimensions may need to wait until next weekend. The box is Bob's, stored at his house and he is rather busy these days.

Howard · #22 06-09-06, 01:42

Thanks for the pix Grant. The toolbox is an exact match to mine and I can confirm the cut outs are on both sides for fuel fillers.
The tail gate looks like it will be fairly easy to reproduce, I'll get some measurements off you when it comes time to make one.
Thank Bob for me too please.
Cheers
Howard.

dodgenut · #23 12-09-06, 18:36

Hi all

Ok, the old girl is back at my pal's place now, here are some pics....I've hosted them elsewhere so as not to slow down the thread for any dialuppers out there

He's not had a go at getting it to run yet, but it turns over and the clutch is free, so maybe it'll run. Story is that its not been out since the 50s. I trust these will be of interest, the rear body looks to be in very original order (at least to a layman like me

David_Hayward (RIP) · #24 12-09-06, 19:27

Thanks DN! Is it going to be retored, or rather tidied up? It would make an excellent item subject for VINTAGE ROADSCENE magazine.

This is the line-up of early 1942 Model C15A trucks:

2844400412 ENGINE # WR3,762,304
2844400447 ENGINE # WR3,762,557
2844400469 ENGINE # WR3,763,625
2844400493 ENGINE # WR3,763,620
2844400503 ENGINE # WR3,763,662

I cannot reconcile this with a British order yet, and suggest it is ex-Canadian?

dodgenut · #25 12-09-06, 20:24

Hi David

Its only just got back so I'm not sure as yet of his plans. Preserving as-is would probably be his choice I imagine, doing just enough to make it safe and roadworthy. He's also just rescued a K2 Austin (civvy) this week, so whether he'll keep both or not I'm not sure!!

Rick.

Keith Webb · #26 12-09-06, 21:40

Wonderful looking find... I notice there's a CMP mirror mounted in the cab...

And it's had a SU electric fuel pump fitted too.

dodgenut · #27 12-09-06, 22:06

Yeah its a little cracker isnt it, we dont think it saw much use in the 50s and probably retired to the garage in 1950 or so, and not been out since.

It'll be a bonus if it runs as well, the owner is used to coaxing old motors into life so I'll report back if/when this one fires up!

cheers, Rick.

Bob Carriere · #28 15-09-06, 04:23

The Pictures you have added to the forum will be referrenced for years to come..... Thank you......

Having said that..... here comes the request.... can you provide some pictures of the inside of the cargo box.... all 4 corners and the fenders from the inside. Also at the front of the cargo box are small storage bins hanging form the under side... any chance of closeups.

Your pictures are rare in being so original.

Bob Carriere

#29 15-09-06, 05:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Webb
And it's had a SU electric fuel pump fitted too.

A more unreliable and recalcitrant device would be hard to find, never before in the field of automotives have so many, wasted so much time fiddling with them in fruitless frustration.

The only device that has irrevocably stopped me (and most of the people I know) on the roadside many times in 43 years of driving; even "new", electronic ones out of the box from our much vaunted SU carb people do not work or fail in a week.

They have no place on a CMP or any other vehicle for that matter and are debatably useful for hand grenade practice only. In the grand scale of usefulness the SU fuel pump runs a poor second to a fart in a colander.

R.

dodgenut · #30 15-09-06, 08:50

Hi Bob

I'm probably calling by the garage where its at later today, so will take a camera along with me.

Rick