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  #1  
Old 24-06-22, 00:10
Richard Salter Richard Salter is offline
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Default cmp 13 gun tractor

Hi help needed I have brought a CMP what I believe to be a Artillery gun tractor please see photos any info would be good I think it was a beetle back originally but the back has been chopped off and a GMC back put on it has the winch and the engine not sure if it runs, I would like to restore it back to a gun tractor. The only ID is the chassis no which looks like J844N2685
Any info or plans for Fabricating the back please
Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
20220512_180056.jpg   20220609_134603.jpg   20220512_180020.jpg   20220609_134405.jpg   20220609_134924.jpg  

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  #2  
Old 24-06-22, 00:23
rob love rob love is online now
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It sure does appear to be an artillery tractor. The shells were usually pulled by the farmers or garages who bought them and the winch used for a tow truck boom. As such, you could occasionally find the shells hiding in the bush lines of the rural properties, but these days they are a very rare find. They are pretty much all fabricated, but it may be a little difficult to do one via emails.



I am just in the infancy of my artillery tractor project. The shell was found by a guy 2 provinces away located just 40kms from me. It had 3" thick trees growing through it, and some of the original padlocks were still hanging from the bins. It sports a few bullet holes and some of the top metal was salvaged by the farmer for another project but overall it is the pot of goldat the end of the rainbow.
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  #3  
Old 24-06-22, 11:01
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default Chevrolet CGT FAT

Hi Richard,

Good to see this one resurfacing. Last time I saw this, it was for sale in the Netherlands.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Chevrolet CMP FAT Quad WW2 img_1.jpg
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ID:	129185


This was once a field artillery tractor (FAT) indeed. Most survivors have the rear body missing. Chances are slim to find a rebuildable body, as most were scrapped after they were removed to make room for a more useful load body or a crane. They can be reconstructed, as far as I know there are no plans available. One restorer in Belgium used a 1:35 scale model for dimensions, others have used a restored FAT to reconstruct the body. Roger Wilson in New Zealand builds sheet metal kits for these.

Another option is to build an Indian Pattern FAT with a wooden body. Much easier to do and much rarer!
Quote:
"Dutch Forces in the Netherlands East Indies got many vehicles and equipment handed over from British-Indian army units in 1946.

The picture of the four trucks is of the 6th Indian Field Artillery before they (and the 145th FAR (Berkshire Yeomanry)) handed over their guns and trucks to the Dutch."Click image for larger version

Name:	2934347_3425004c3a6be6cfd95753cb0554678f.jpg
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ID:	129186
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  #4  
Old 24-06-22, 14:52
m606paz m606paz is offline
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Great project!
Pics here in forum maybe help you
Walde Libera made the rear end
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2670
Others posts
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14429
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=15927
If you need measurements we have a FGT to take
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=281450
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  #5  
Old 24-06-22, 15:37
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Default Serial number J844N2685

I'm not saying that your reading of the number is wrong, but typically the serial number assigned at the GM factory in Canada was purely numeric. As a result, I would have expected a C-GT model to have a number of the format y8440nnnnn with n being the last digit of the nominal year of manufacture and the ns being the sequential serial number (8440 representing the artillery tractor model). Based on that I would guess your serial is 3844026851. My experience is that it is unusual to find Canadian Chevrolet with the serial stamped on the chassis but this might have been done after the fact to satisfy a licensing authoutity (though the numbers are much better spaced and aligned than most after the fact efforts). Is there any chance that the data plates remain on the dash to confirm or deny? If the plates are missing, a difference in how the paint in their locations has aged might hold a clue.


Followup: I found a photo I took of the data plate of the remains of a CGT, attached. The other plates list it as a model C-60441-M-FAT-4 with parts list CGT-01 and maintenance manual MB-C1 applying. The photo confirms the pattern described above (possible exception - the model year).
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CGT data plate.jpg  

Last edited by Grant Bowker; 24-06-22 at 16:15.
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  #6  
Old 24-06-22, 19:39
Richard Salter Richard Salter is offline
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Default fat cmp

yes you could be right I'm only guessing on number by the look of what your saying mine would be 1944 built? I've looked at some of the links sent me in other post and can see defiant similarities in the body construction for example in the cab be hind the seats in the corner of the roof are tubular strength bars suggesting it was a all one piece roof with canvas cover.

There are no data plates on the engine cover but there is an old printed label with service instructions on it but very faint.
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  #7  
Old 24-06-22, 20:15
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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My guess would be 1943, but I'm far from certain on that.
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  #8  
Old 24-06-22, 21:33
Richard Salter Richard Salter is offline
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Default cmp

Ok well the first thing I will do is take off the old GMC tub on the back and either sell or scrap it then perhaps look for more evidence on markings pic of winch and a better view of chassis no
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20220609_134634.jpg   20220609_134405.jpg   20220609_134737.jpg  
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  #9  
Old 24-06-22, 22:02
rob love rob love is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Salter View Post
J844N2685
I see a 3 as opposed to a J. And I'm pretty sure that N will be a number or numbers.
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  #10  
Old 25-06-22, 13:26
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Richard,

Congratulations! Lovely project.

Be sure to check out that rear cab wall.....as by the looks of if.....I am pretty sure that used to be the sloping roof on the original beetle back.

Alex
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  #11  
Old 25-06-22, 21:07
Richard Salter Richard Salter is offline
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Default cmp 13

Hi Alex
Thanks for that info that's great obviously I can reuse, so how do you know as im a novice with cmp and am putting all the information I get together before I start.
Thanks
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  #12  
Old 26-06-22, 00:04
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Richard,

I recognized the square holes with all the nuts around it, that the previous owner cleverly used as windows for the cab rear wall.....they are the original frames for the access covers (vents??) in the sloping back.
The best I can come up with at the moment is this factory picture that shows the two covers.
source: factoryphotos DVD from Servicepub

I presume the square tubing is also part of the original super structure.
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FAT 13 cab 804-15742.jpg  
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  #13  
Old 26-06-22, 18:44
Richard Salter Richard Salter is offline
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Default cmp 13 fat

Hi Alex
after reading your post I also went on a quest to find out if you are right and yes you are I not only found photo evidence like your picture but I also looked at my CMP Fat again and yes I believe who ever converted the truck used the roof to fill in the back and the vents still work when researching I also notice that although the Beatle back looked the same their were supple difference's some had the rear seats facing the front so crew sat over the rear wheels and I think the later version had a bench seat for the crew which was located behind the front seats facing towards the rear. also the back of the body doors are two big ones and on others its 3 little ones different sizes. I would like to know the reason for this and is this a modification difference between dates
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  #14  
Old 27-06-22, 09:20
Maurice Donckers Maurice Donckers is offline
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the chassis number on yours is a modern Dutch registration number .
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  #15  
Old 05-07-22, 11:12
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Salter View Post
when researching I also notice that although the Beatle back looked the same their were supple difference's some had the rear seats facing the front so crew sat over the rear wheels and I think the later version had a bench seat for the crew which was located behind the front seats facing towards the rear. also the back of the body doors are two big ones and on others its 3 little ones different sizes. I would like to know the reason for this and is this a modification difference between dates
See this thread for some info: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...252#post216252

All versions of the gun tractor body had four forward facing seats. Two more seats in the cab.
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  #16  
Old 08-07-22, 10:55
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Andy Mitchell Andy Mitchell is offline
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Hi Richard,
I have sent you Roger Wilsons contact details in New Zealand on Facebook.
Cheers,

Andy
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  #17  
Old 08-07-22, 14:06
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default Roger Roger Wilson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
Roger Wilson in New Zealand builds sheet metal kits for these.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Mitchell View Post
I have sent you Roger Wilsons contact details in New Zealand on Facebook.
Roger is a member of this forum, too: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/member.php?u=13867
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