Peterborough area Auction

Steve Guthrie · #1 10-05-07, 02:38

Hi there

The print ad mentioned a "1940 4x4 snowplow' and GMC 6x6 cargo truck.

Take a look.....

http://theauctionadvertiser.com/cgi-...an&dt=20070512

Steve

cliff · #2 10-05-07, 06:57

Looks like an 11 cab Ford with a lot of extras fitted

Alex Blair (RIP) · #3 10-05-07, 13:57

Quote:

Originally posted by cliff
Looks like an 11 cab Ford with a lot of extras fitted

Cliff..
All that rigging to the side looks like the operating and support structure for a wing plough...a blade that operated separtely from the front blade and usually run by the second assistant in the cab while the driver drove and operated the main blade..but with a right hand drive and a right hand wing plough the driver probably operated both..
Highly effective in moving snow..
Wing plough Probably adds extra 10-11' in width to ploughing pass..

Max Hedges · #4 10-05-07, 14:19

Alex what snow depth could a blitz shift off a road
Max

Alex Blair (RIP) · #5 10-05-07, 15:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Max Hedges
Alex what snow depth could a blitz shift off a road
Max

Hi Max
Snow ploughing isn't an exact science.....wet snow being heavier...dry snow at colder temperatures,lighter...so a foot of wet snow at 32 Deg F would be much heavier than a foot of snow at -20 F...and much lighted ..
But a foot either way would probably be the limit...but then it is never "Exactly" a foot evenly spread....

Drifts of a couple of feet for a short couple of feet could be moved ,at least pushed a side..
I think that would be a good jag for a CMP with a plough on it...Probably less with the wing down..

Grant Bowker · #6 10-05-07, 16:06

The framework is clearly for snow removal gear, I thought there was a second photo showing a V plow on the front plus wing to the right on the auction site.
For the V plow alone the limiting factor will be traction. Such plows are great for breaking snow drifts of multiple feet depth, but do send part of the snow removed to the left, which can be a problem on wider roads, as a result these plows are much less common than they used to be in cities and on highways but may still be used on narrower rural roads.
There is also a huge difference in snow depth that can be cleared depending on the character of the snow. Dry, powdery snow depths up to about the height of the wing can be cleared easily in a single pass (due to the shape of the blade snow can roll ahead of the blade at depths greater than the height of the blade). Wet, sticky snow, near the melt/freeze point is a whole different game. Being both heavier and forming into a solid mass as it is pushed by the plow, it can pack into something approaching a solid ice wall. I have operated a snow plow and had wet snow pack to the point that I had to ram the wall to take small slices of the side of the built up snow because the truck didn't have enough traction and momentum to keep the snow rolling. At this point the snow roll in front of a 30" tall blade was close to 5 feet high. Yes, the snow roll can get heavy and solid enough in front of an angled blade to force the truck sideways uncontrolably. I have had it happen in my pickup based rig and seen it happen both on heavy dump truck based rigs and on front end loaders and graders set up with blades.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #7 10-05-07, 16:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Grant Bowker
The framework is clearly for snow removal gear, I thought there was a second photo showing a V plow on the front plus wing to the right on the auction site.
For the V plow alone the limiting factor will be traction. Such plows are great for breaking snow drifts of multiple feet depth, but do send part of the snow removed to the left, which can be a problem on wider roads, as a result these plows are much less common than they used to be in cities and on highways but may still be used on narrower rural roads.
There is also a huge difference in snow depth that can be cleared depending on the character of the snow. Dry, powdery snow depths up to about the height of the wing can be cleared easily in a single pass (due to the shape of the blade snow can roll ahead of the blade at depths greater than the height of the blade). Wet, sticky snow, near the melt/freeze point is a whole different game. Being both heavier and forming into a solid mass as it is pushed by the plow, it can pack into something approaching a solid ice wall. I have operated a snow plow and had wet snow pack to the point that I had to ram the wall to take small slices of the side of the built up snow because the truck didn't have enough traction and momentum to keep the snow rolling. At this point the snow roll in front of a 30" tall blade was close to 5 feet high. Yes, the snow roll can get heavy and solid enough in front of an angled blade to force the truck sideways uncontrolably. I have had it happen in my pickup based rig and seen it happen both on heavy dump truck based rigs and on front end loaders and graders set up with blades.

Grant.
What you say in three thousand words,I tryed to convey in three hundred..and started with the caveat....
"Ploughing snow is not an exact science.."..
When we mention "Traction' ,that of course will lead up to the number of cross links and design of the chain set you are using...
Just trying to enlighten our upside down brothers on some of the points of snow ploughing...
Any of us Canadians can tell that there are more variables in snow removal ,all having shovelled our share,including the variable of how much we have had to drink to ward off the snow snakes and the cold..
But your input is well recieved..

Grant Bowker · #8 10-05-07, 17:07

I think we were typing at the same time, your reply wasn't there when I started to slowly type mine. At least we didn't give wildly different answers.

chris vickery · #9 10-05-07, 19:40

And, exactly how much snow can you remove with a 60+ year old CMP truck??? I would say not a whole lot compared to todays technology.
Remember, we are talking about a truck in excess of 7000lbs with a 85 HP engine. I would think it could move some, albeit very slowly. A cmp does have the gearing and torque although I think the runflat tires would be the limiting factor. Tires chains a must, otherwise she`d sit there spinning for sure.
I know our shop truck ( 1985 F150 4x4 w 351cid) has a tough time in the parking lot sometimes with 6" of heavy wet snow and ice. It features an adjustable plow and certainly has a lot more umph than a cmp... Another consideration when plowing is frame strength, as it is extremely hard on them.
I am sure at the time, something was better than nothing and we see a lot of these farmer rigs around.

mike mckinley · #10 10-05-07, 22:11

do my eyes decieve me, or is that truck sporting an original tipper body?

chris vickery · #11 10-05-07, 22:38

Mike, my .02 worth...

Without a close examination it is certainly hard to tell. I would hazzard a guess to say not, as I believe the tippers were on 30cwt and 60cwt chassis, thereby being a reather long dumpbox.

Unfortunately I don`t have my Gregg books handy to check as a cross reference.

Another oddity in the picture is the 20" wheels, either an afterthought or possibilities that this is a gun tractor chassis.

It seems to me that many of the gun tractors were chosen to only be cut up and modified into all types of gadgets. I suppose this was due to the un-usable body type but the heavy duty frame, fairleads, two speed transfer case and integeral winch setup. I have seen many of theses oddballs during my years of mv
enthusiasm, everything from forklifts to boat lauchers to mobile yard cranes and snowplows. Unfortunately for us the poor FGTs are seldom found in "as was" condition...

Keith Webb · #12 10-05-07, 23:17

Looks like a 134" but it's a bit hard to tell from the angle of the pic.

Note the 'rebuilt flathead'

Quote:

1940 4 wheel drive snow plough, right hand drive, with V and wing blade, dump sand box, rebuilt flathead V8 motor, one of a kind, great project and eye catcher

Also interesting to note they have the year right.

And it looks to have the square V8 badge! And is that a toolbox/spare wheel carrier behind the cab?

cletrac (RIP) · #13 10-05-07, 23:19

Here's another one that had a snowplow attached. You can see the linkage to lift the plow by the front bumper and the headlights are mounted high to shine over the plow. When you plow snow with a truck a big part of the traction solution is a load of gravel in the back.
This is a nice F15A with a 2B1 box that the old woman won't part with yet. Maybe some day!

RHClarke · #14 11-05-07, 00:19

Here is a shot of my C15 (which is for sale by the way) after I removed the plough/before I removed the rigging. This truck was used up til six years ago when they fried the wiring. The farmer I bought it from indicated that it had no problem moving snow around the farm yard and the road to the back 40.

Barry Churcher · #15 13-05-07, 00:11

Brian, Ian McColl and I seemed to be the only CMPers there and we didn't get it. Brian can better tell the results.
Barry

Brian Gough · #16 13-05-07, 01:51

Yes, today was a great spring day for a country auction that included a very rare CMP. It was nice to see Ian McColl there and looking at the picture, I know why Ian wasn't shopping for an 11 cab. It was not a large sale and nothing seemed to go for very much. I don't think anyone got rich today.

Vehicle selling prices:

1951 Willys CJ3B $3500.
GMC 6 x 6 with winch $2000.
1940 CMP 11 Cab Ford F60S Tipper $1700.

Despite the small crowd and the few bidders on the CMP, we didn't actually see who ended up with it. The auctioneer's staff couldn't (or wouldn't) identify the successful bidder to us. So, we don't know if this beauty will remain hidden from the world, be properly restored or resume ploughing snow somewhere. Global warming may be its saviour yet.

Despite a post-war working life as a snow plough, it remains a very original CMP. Still in place in the cab are the original side curtains, side curtain storage bag behind the driver's seat, fire extinguisher bracket and rifle holders. On the back was the original tool box and the Gar Wood tipper box with data plate. To accommodate the wing plough on the right, both gas original tanks (the early version with the reserve section) were mounted on the left side frame. I believe the serial number to be 1G6739F.

I am sure Barry will be posting more pictures.

Brian

Barry Churcher · #17 13-05-07, 01:56

Box Data Plate

Barry Churcher · #18 13-05-07, 02:15

Curtain Bag

Barry Churcher · #19 13-05-07, 02:29

Tow hook below the frame
Rubber light has a swirl pattern lense and looks original
Casting broken on tow hook from moving truck-fresh

Keith Webb · #20 13-05-07, 02:40

I hope it resurfaces here - sounds like a good buy given the original state it was in.

I notice it had a banjo rear diff - was the front the same?

That's the first cab 11/12 side curtain bag I've seen - what a great pattern it would make.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #21 13-05-07, 03:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry Churcher
Tow hook below the frame
Rubber light has a swirl pattern lense and looks original
Casting broken on tow hook from moving truck-fresh

Look at the axle housing...white paint may indicate convoy duty..was this vehicle overseas or was it painted white for night operations here in Canada...
Oh if these babys could talk.
Nice truck...hope it is going to the barn...
Bob...Did you get this one..?