Chevrolet C60L - in the desert of Libya

Kuno · #1 06-04-07, 11:50

Another CMP truck has been found in the desert of Libya and Hanno identified it as being a Chevrolet C60L 60-cwt 4x4 truck with the so-called No.12 cab (the second type cab). This type was used in North Africa extensively, but judging by
the info on www.lrdg.de the C60L was not used by the LRDG.

(Thanks, Hanno, for the identification)

Meanwhile there is some evidence that this truck had belonged to the Free French i.e. "Colonne Leclerc".

The pictures and my assumptions can be found here:

http://www.afrika-korps.de/forum/vie...?p=30802#30802

David_Hayward (RIP) · #2 06-04-07, 21:21

Almost certainly in my mind this was one delivered under Demand S/M 2019, and allocated a Census Number in the L 1304xxx or 1305xxx series. Also possibly assembled in GM Near East, Alexandria or the depot there.

Kuno · #3 06-04-07, 22:19

...sadly the finder of the truck did not look for any numbers stamped in. I had asked him already about...

Kuno · #4 18-04-07, 21:40

...got the message from France that Leclercs column did not use this type of truck...

...to whom it might have belonged then

Ryan · #5 19-04-07, 00:21

Hey guys, I watched a program on libya recently on TV about the opening up of trade and tourism with the west. It had a very untouched feel about it. Libya contains a wealth of WW2 sites important to many countries which made me think, is there a wealth of vehicle wrecks still out there ?
WW2 related tourism will surely boom in this country as time goes on. Am I right in my assumptions?

Shane Lovell · #6 19-04-07, 03:33

Ryan

My understanding is that in the 1950/60s wreck collection in Libya for scrap was a major income earner and most wrecks in the easy to get to places were collected.

Still, love to visit!!

cheers

Shane

sapper740 · #7 19-04-07, 13:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Shane Lovell
Ryan

My understanding is that in the 1950/60s wreck collection in Libya for scrap was a major income earner and most wrecks in the easy to get to places were collected.

Shane

The Arabs are great scavengers and seldom leave anything of value in the desert. In 1999 I took a bus from Eilat, Israel to Cairo, Egypt and we drove across the Sinai and through the famous Mitla Pass, scene of much fighting in the 6 Day War. I had hoped to see some of the many tanks, aircraft, and vehicles that had been destroyed in the fighting but was disappointed to only see a partial set of tracks and an unidentifiable truck chassis protruding from the sand. Most everything else was either buried or recovered, I assume.

Kuno · #8 24-04-07, 10:02

@ above posters;

Libya is n fact not an "open sky WW2 museum". As already stated, scrap metal was a main export business until the oil replaced it in the early sixties. For example the larger surroundings of TOBRUK are completely free of any wrecks of WW2. All the main battle grounds and the area along the coast have been "whiped up" just after the end of the hostilities. Later on in the 1980ies, when the steel factory in Misuratha became operational, a further cleaning up has been done.

Since now the price for steel (thanks to the high Chinese demand) is rising and rising, the Libyans do collect whatever they can find in matters of metal. Several wartime wrecks I was aware of have disapperad within the last three years

One should not take the wrong conclsion that if so "many" LRDG wrecks are found in very remote areas, the coastal are must be full of wrecks of "normal" units. The oposite is the case - the wreck in the remote areas were just not worth to be brought to the melting pot - not YET!

What I have started to do in case I find any wreck of WW2 is to mark it as a "monument of Libyan history" (in english & arabic language) - it is the true case that the local people just do not KNOW about the historical background of these relics

----

Sometimes one comes to the other and therefore I would like to draw your attention to another wreck of a Chevrolet. I believe that this could now be the truck which has been left burned by the french:

http://www.afrika-korps.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3353

cliff · #9 24-04-07, 10:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Kuno
@ above posters;

----

Sometimes one comes to the other and therefore I would like to draw your attention to another wreck of a Chevrolet. I believe that this could now be the truck which has been left burned by the french:

http://www.afrika-korps.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3353

OK I am not a member of the other forum so I will reply here.

The vehicle is a 1940/41 MCP Chevrolet with non original headlamps fitted.

Once the roof was cut from the cabs on these vehicles the remainder of the cab lost it's stuctural strength to the extent that any rough terrain would have shaken the cab so much that the rear panel would have pulled back and the doors would all of a sudden spring open. Bad if you happened to be leaning against it at the same time

. So this is the reason the doors would have been bolted shut.

The extra rod/support on the LHS door would have been to help hold the spare wheel which would have been relocated to this position when the vehicle was modified by the French or whoever.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Cliff

PS> Bill how many other photos have you got of this type of Chevrolet that you can share with me?

Kuno · #10 24-04-07, 15:58

Thanks for information about the fixation of the door (btw I wonder how the rear panel stood stable at the LRDG-trucks, where the doors had been removed completely).

The fixation of the spare wheel at the co-pilots door was already assumed; thanks for confirmation here.

cliff · #11 24-04-07, 21:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Kuno
(btw I wonder how the rear panel stood stable at the LRDG-trucks, where the doors had been removed completely).

The LRDG trucks were a totally different design as they were flat faced cowl units and not full cab versions with the roof removed. So the rear panel would have been designed and built with the strength to 'stand alone' without the support of the doors.

On the French truck if just the doors had been removed the cab itself would have retained it's integral strength as they were designed in such a way that the roof offered a lot of the bracing capabilities of the cab. Once the roof is removed over half the structural strength was gone. This is why convertable cars are built so strong and why modern cars without a full chassis bend in the middle if the roof is removed.

I hope I have explained this so it is understandable.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #12 24-04-07, 22:14

My information has it that the LRDG used both:

MODEL 1311 CHASSIS WITH FLAT FACE COWL 1/2 TON 115" W.B.

MODEL 1533X2 CHASSIS WITH CAB (200 off) 2 TON 134½ W.B.

however if you look at the photos of the new truck in Dr Gregg's book you can see that it lacked any proper cab, and had a flat screen. I am not sure it was strictly a flat-face cowl (that was the 1531) but it was essentially the same.

Kuno · #13 05-05-07, 15:36

...and are there any reference-photos for the brackets (to contain fuel canistres?) elsewhere?

Rob Beale · #14 05-05-07, 23:07

The Tamiya LRDG truck model has diagonal braces on the cab rear panel each side of the bench seat. They are visible in some LRDG photos, though often obscured by the SMLE and cloth bandoliers of ammo.

Rob

Kuno · #15 10-09-07, 08:14

So; I cam back just recently from another trip to the desert where I had the occassion to visit the one Chevrolet we spoke about above. I took the advice serious and was looking for a number on it - we were very lucky; the engine was still placed where it should be (at least a part of it).

Also interesting to see is who they had widened the mudguards to take the larger desert-tires.

For me it is clear that it is a Chevrolet used by the Free French and not one of the L.R.D.G..

The tires were burnt - this is a further indication to the French since there is reportet that they had burnt such particular car after mech. breakdown.

Kuno · #16 10-09-07, 08:15

The Engine with the Number:

Kuno · #17 10-09-07, 08:16

And for those who cannot read the number - here it is a little bit closer

David_Hayward (RIP) · #18 10-09-07, 09:06

The engine is a Flint built 216, 1941 Model right hand drive. It could therefore be a 1941 rhd MS or MR?

Kuno · #19 10-09-07, 10:14

1941 could be possible. The burned French truck has been lost in late 1942.

Jon Skagfeld · #20 11-09-07, 01:27

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
The Arabs are great scavengers and seldom leave anything of value in the desert. In 1999 I took a bus from Eilat, Israel to Cairo, Egypt and we drove across the Sinai and through the famous Mitla Pass, scene of much fighting in the 6 Day War. I had hoped to see some of the many tanks, aircraft, and vehicles that had been destroyed in the fighting but was disappointed to only see a partial set of tracks and an unidentifiable truck chassis protruding from the sand. Most everything else was either buried or recovered, I assume.

Yet, in 1984, I flew over the Mitla Pass on a Saudia flight from Jeddah to Cairo...there were many wrecks evident...burnt out hulks as far as one could see.