LP2A fitting question

Lynn Eades · #1 27-09-11, 23:28

A non forum friend with an LP2a is trying to find out exactly what was on the floor in the left rear of his carrier just behind the vickers tripod mount location.
His carrier has a "box" for the butt of a Bren gun on the left, and beside that was another fitting for something.
the photo attached shows only the vickers tripod in place. the missing fitting would be welded to the floor directly behind it.

D Ellery · #2 28-09-11, 07:04

Hi Lynn, I have seen a picture of a 303 rifle standing there with a mount welded to the back air intake above the vickers tripod. Can't for the life of me recall where I saw that picture.

Heres a pic of Darron Swifts Carrier with fixing on the back of the air intake also. Maybe the missing fitting on the floor is for the rifle's butt holder ?

D Ellery · #3 28-09-11, 07:13

As you can see from Darrons Carrier there is provision for a rifle on the drivers side of the engine cover as well. While were on the subject does anybody know what the long bracket could be for next to the water bottles. Very similar in size to the spade bracket on the rear of the vehicle. I think this vehicle was with the NZ Army into the 50's ( Darron to confirm ) so modifications obviously have taken place. David.

Mike Cecil · #4 29-09-11, 04:32

Lynn,

The image you show is of the early design LP2/2A rear left compartment. The later design included provision for:
(1) the Vickers MMG tripod;
(2) BREN LMG butt box welded to the floor, slightly further back and to the left of the Vickers tripod. The muzzle of the BREN was held in a box-bracket welded to the rear of the air intake scoop.
(3) Spare barrel and hold-all for the BREN, located to the right of the Vickers tripod, tucked in behind the fire extinguisher and against the air intake structure.

The later version also had the Iron Ration boxes relocated from the rear right to the rear left compartment, as well as the BREN spare mag box or Lewis Gun Mag box (the latter only if a Lewis was actually carried). This freed space for fitting a wireless set to the rear right compartment if required.

Later versions of the Drivers handbook have images. I reproduced the compartment images for both early and later versions in my book 'AMEP Vol.2 Local Pattern Carriers 1939-1945'.

Do you have an image of the bracket in your friends carrier?

Mike C

Lynn Eades · #5 29-09-11, 09:27

Here is the carrier in question. Its the thing where the red primer is.

Euan McDonald · #6 02-10-11, 01:34

Hi Lynn,
This is the inside shot of my late LP2a showing the bracket.

Mike Cecil · #7 02-10-11, 02:34

Both images seem to correspond with the position where the head of the tripod (Vickers) sits on the floor when the legs are held against the air intake scoop. Can't see that it corresponds with anmything else, but happy to be corrected.

Mike C

Lynn Eades · #8 02-10-11, 04:53

Euan, Thankyou, thats what we're looking for.

Any idea of its purpose?
Mike,

Isn't that the vickers tripod in place in the first photo?

Mike Cecil · #9 02-10-11, 18:57

Yes, and it is in the same position in the later version of stowage in that compartment, with the BREN butt box welded to the floor to the left and slightly further toward the rear of the carrier.

The position appears to correspond with the floor fitting in the two images (yours and Euan's), so I would anticipate that it is the resting point for the Vickers tripod head. I'm guessing that it possibly had a thick felt pad inside the circular fitting on which to rest the Vickers tripod head, otherwise the head would be hammering/vibrating against the steel floor as the carrier moved along.

Mike C

Lynn Eades · #10 02-10-11, 21:00

Thankyou Mike.
Euan, any chance of some measurements? Height, dia inside, thickness of material. width of opening. Cheers.

Euan McDonald · #11 02-10-11, 23:01

Lynn,
Can do as soon as I return from Bathurst V8 race this weekend.

matilda IIA · #12 05-10-11, 07:54

"Bathurst" for the week, Id better keep an eye out for you !

Kind Regards
Matt

darron swift · #13 07-10-11, 14:20

Hi Lynn,
our friend contacted me and i spent a great many hours going over my books and my carrier i suppect that the ring is a add on of some sort but not for the vickers the mount at the bottom goes up hard against the bulk head and is bolted in place by four bolts the vickers cradle sits in the tube which holds it in place while the legs are straped to the intake cowling the build book that i have does not show anyring on the floor.
Cheers
darron.

Mike Cecil · #14 07-10-11, 17:25

Hi Darren,

Got any images showing that? If it was an 'add on', it was done to more than one carrier (see above). It's also about the right size to cradle the round cast bronze head of the tripod. Maybe it was an 'add on' improvement by Defence (rather than being part of the original build)?

The head of the Vickers Tripod sits on the floor, and there is a space behind it due to the shape of the air intake cowl, which is angled. The modern images above don't have the intake cowl fitted.

Mike C

matilda IIA · #15 08-10-11, 13:09

Hi Guys

I also have a late carrier (4954) with this fitting, also you should note the provision on the air scoop for a strap to hold the base of the object and also a support just to the right of the bren muzzel box and just above the top leg support for the vickers tripod. This fitting also as provision for a strap...

Please be aware that the bren box is bent...to the right in the attached photo, but thats another story !!

I have reviewed the manuals I have and although they show the vickers tripod in place nothing is placed on the support that can also be seen in the photos.

My other carriers do not have these fittings.

Kind regards
Matt

Lynn Eades · #16 08-10-11, 20:47

Thankyou for the well put together reply. The chap I asked on behalf of, has found another carrier (9 digit different serial number) here in NZ with the same fittings, so we can now be sure that what ever they are for, was a standard fitting arrangement on both sides of theTasman. (was it a factory build, or an service modification?)
Thankyou all for the input.